Original Over and Under Percussion

[Feltwad]

Enclosed are images of a original continental  over and under percussion shotgun in 24 bore which maybe of interest to members  The barrels are of Damascus twist and are 30 inches long  , ignition is the right hand hammer fires the top barrel and the left hand hammer the bottom barrel, the locks are well made and not like some repros with a carved walnut stock and cheek piece.  I would say it was off the 1840-50  build
Feltwad

[AZshot]

Interesting but a double barrel European shotgun isn't an American long rifle.  Maybe we need a sub-forum for other types to keep them organized. 

[Feltwad]

Interesting but a double barrel European shotgun isn't an American long rifle.  Maybe we need a sub-forum for other types....I don't know.  But I come here to look at antique American long rifles. 

Sorry about that  .Moderator please remove that thread has some people  cannot see the history of the gun  and only see  one type
Feltwad

[Mike Brooks]

Interesting but a double barrel European shotgun isn't an American long rifle.  Maybe we need a sub-forum for other types....I don't know.

So, no jeagers, English rifles, no guns of unknow backround.....

[Feltwad]

Over the years I have entered several threads on different ignition types of   muzzle loading shotguns and rifles of English , French and continental weapons  with no complaint most members in the  States have never heard of or seen . But it seems that there is element of members who only want to see or here of the Pennsylvanian Long rifle and not  :on  the history of the gun so that  makes one think why bother  .
Feltwad 

[AZshot]

Frankly, looking back at all the European shotgun posts....they are very interesting and informative.  That's why I suggested a sub-forum under "Antiques" for "everything else."  It would solve the problem of users having to open a thread to see if it's about an ALR or not, but retain the ability to show other arms.  I see American Civil War muzzle loaders are not allowed, perhaps 3 sections.... ALR, Foreign, and Civil War. 

[mr. no gold]

Think that I have to agree with AzS on this one. And, should a new category be established let's put under hammer guns in it. Why should we set limits if we are going to broaden some categories and continue to restrict others. Then we will have a site that has something of interest for many. Keep the line at muzzleloaders, prior to say 1880, however. 
Dick

[RAT]

An auction listing for a Leman trade rifle was recently posted. Some of the responses seem to be... "this type of gun never interested me". I hope we don't start down the road of only allowing stuff that interests a select group, instead of allowing anything that might interest somebody.

I've seen this discussed in other forums of various types before. Generally it was related to someone who thought they wasted their time by opening a thread only to find it wasn't something that THEY personally wasn't interested in. How long does it take to open and then close a thread without reading it? Like 2 seconds? Not a big deal in my book. I certainly don't read or comment on every post on this forum. I say let it in. Let's not get too clique-ish.

[AZshot]

All I'm asking is is the ALR a specialty site for American Long Rifles?  All the mission statements and what you can post rules says it is. 

[44-henry]

I have been involved with this site a long time and have enjoyed reading about the history and gun building techniques of a wide variety of firearms ranging from wheelocks to the no longer allowed underhammer. There is a wealth of information here and I for one would feel it is a shame to get too nit pickey. As was said earlier if the topic doesn't interest you move on. No reason to create a fuss and ruin it for those of us that embrace a bit of diversity. I would sure hate to quit seeing posts about wheelocks, jaegars, Ferguson's and the occasional English flint double just to name a few.

[LynnC]

I have no problem with posts involving any arm predating the American Long rifle nor any post of any arm made during the same period as our long rifle as I am sure one influences the development of the other.

You have to know where you came from and the influences on you as you grew up.

[Pukka Bundook]

Feltwad old pal,

I am sorry your thread has gone this way.
Maybe we don't fit too well here in some folks eyes.

Maybe join British Militaria Forums, there are lots of places to show and discuss English and Continental sporting guns.
You would be most welcome I know for a fact, and no baiting is allowed.

I have shared antique guns not Long Rifle here, but I guess this is the end to that.

[LynnC]

Come, come now.....please stay. This may not be everyones cup of tea but I see no harm considering the forum is entitled “Antique Gun Collecting”  We all came over from the old country at some point.

[LynnC]

Well most of us anyway    I very much appreciate our contributors from across the pond

[Dutch Blacky]

Thank you very much for showing this excellent and unusual gun @Feltwad.

We should consider, that the American Longrifle has genes from the Jaeger-Rifle and the Trade Gun, and style and decoration/carvings have been influenced by european guns. European fashion came rather fast to the remote areas on the frontier. Most of the guns in the colonies and the young US have been imported from Europe. So the presence of european guns might have been sufficient to  influence the style of guns made by american gun makers. Furthermore they used locks and parts imported from Europe.

It is the same thing with powder horns and powder flasks. A lot of horns and flasks have been made in Europe for export, and european metal powder flasks have been rather popular in the US, and have been used also in combination with longrifles. Later US-companies  copied some design of european flasks.
IMHO there has been an exchance of technic and design, and it is rather interesting for me, to see european guns (that have been also used in de US) in a forum that has a focus on the  American Longrifle.

[Dennis Glazener]

AZshot is correct about this forum being primarily about the American Long Rifle but over the years it has drifted into other areas. We put rules in place trying to keep discussions from getting too far away from Long Rifles, by restricting our discussions to sidelock ML'ing guns. We still get complaints because we remove topics/replies that some members feel like should be allowed.

Like Mike mentioned are we to disallow  jeagers, English sporting  rifles, guns of unknown backround, Hawken and other Plains rifles? As long as these type guns do not take over the board I do not want to outlaw them.

As far as setting up different forums for all these different areas of interest, I don't want to do that either. It creates far too much additional work for our moderators/Admins. It is very time consuming to split out improper replies, contact members about why their replies were removed along with other things Moderstors and Admins need to do to keep this board operating smoothly.

In my opinion it also creates divisions in the culture of ML'ing. Act as your own moderator and if you open a thread that has no interest to you just close it and move on.
Dennis

[Mike Brooks]

I can't imagine how this particular gun triggered such a response.

[AZshot]

Study the facts, you'll figure it out.

Dennis, thanks for the clarification.  I'll do as you mention. 

[Daryl]

Feltwad, I see a more robust and lower 'breechblock' on the right hand side. Are you sure the right-hand lock does not fire the lower barrel?

[Mike Brooks]

Study the facts, you'll figure it out.

Dennis, thanks for the clarification.  I'll do as you mention.

I have studied the facts since this forum was formed. All muzzleloading guns have always been welcome here. Except for underhammrrs which I have always found odd.

[Feltwad]

Has I said the right hand hammer  fires the top barrel and the left hand hammer the  bottom barrel, I have images of  full dissemble which show this   which I would rather not  enter and maybe cause more trouble .
Feltwad

[mr. no gold]

Agree with you Mike. I intemperately posted photos of a super fine little target rifle which has the mortal sin of being an under hammer gun. It was removed with a rather caustic PM by the Mod explaining why. That has cost the Forum photos of about a hundred pretty fine KY rifles in a collection that I have access to. I just won't bother. And there seems to be a peculiarity here that someone will post photos of a fine, significant gun and it will garner inly a few comments whereas a beater half stock with no name will elicit pages.
Dick

[LynnC]

I personally welcome any contemporaries of our American long rifle including both side slappers and underhammers. But then I enjoy all kinds antique muzzle loading arms. I dont make the rules. I just try to  abide by them.

I see both sides.  Focus vs Everything of the period. A fine line vs a free for all.

I guess the line has to be clearly drawn somewhere. Not my place to say....

[Dennis Glazener]

I think this topic has run its course so let's move on. I am locking this one.
Dennis