Shellac Stock Finish (pros and cons)

[MKemper]

I am considering a shellac stock finish and have been doing quite a bit of reading on the subject.  For those of you that have tried this "old time" finish what pros and cons can you offer?  Some of the information suggests that the finish does not hold up to water or cleaning solutions (not good for a ML).  Others state that the finish is brittle and can crack or craze.  I do like the repairability characteristics and the ability to rub the final finish out to a nicely burnished or hand-rubbed appearance.  All feedback appreciated.

[MKemper]

I would like to ask an additional questions on this subject.  Since shellac readily dissolves in alcohol, has anyone tried topping a shellac finish with an alcohol based stain in order to adjust coloration.  I often find that my stock stains tend to lighten as I work through the various stages of finish.  I'm certainly not a "black paint" fan, but am always looking for a tried and true method to inject some dark tones into select areas of the stock.  Anyone had success with topping applications using alcohol stains?

[Stophel]

Shellac is good for filling the grain prior to putting an oil varnish on as a top coat (you don't want ANY shellac left standing on the surface of the wood).  This finish leaves the wood clear and bright and the curl is brilliant.  




Shellac is EXTREMELY abrasion-resistant, but it is also hard and brittle.  Not a problem when just filling pores, but it can be a problem as a top coat.  I've never attempted to do a top coat of spirit varnish.  Just filling grain is fairly easy.  Slop it on, wipe it off.  OK, it's not THAT easy, but there's not much to it.


I've been using Button lac, which has been working well for me.  I think in my last batch, I even added some mastic, which, theoretically, aids in making it more elastic.  If I remember correctly, the order of refinement is as follows: seedlac (raw), buttonlac, rubylac, shellac.  Shellac is further refined into garnet, orange, and blonde colors.

[keweenaw]

There are quite a lot of later original muzzleloaders, both US and European, that were finished with spirit based violin varnish.  James Stapleton used a black violin varnish on his Huntingdon Co. rifles to a fine effect and John Manton and some other English makers used a black violin varnish on the bird's eye maple stocks they used on fowlers in the 18teens.   Violin varnish is different than just shellac as the other resins in it are fairly resistant to reabsorbing water after they are dry and finishes like this have held up for nearly 200 years on some of these guns even with heavy use.  For modern use it's best to keep good coat of wax on the finish for some added protection.  The problem with just shellac as a finish is that it will water spot and solvents and lubes with a high alcohol content, like Lehigh Valley, will wreck havoc with them. Shellac is wonderfully hard and if properly applied will not crack or craze.  The key words here are properly applied which doesn't mean brushed on thick, it means put on as a French Polish.  If you are going to use shellac or button lac to fill pores, and it's great for that, you can easily adjust the color with a spirit soluble aniline dye.

Tom

[Stophel]

There are innumerable spirit varnish recipes.  Here's one of the more respected "violin" spirit varnish recipes (older violins often had oil varnish, by the way), uses seedlac/shellac with spike lavender oil (among other things, like mastic).

http://www.violins.ca/varnish/violin_varnish_recipes.html

I haven't had any real luck with coloring the shellac (for use as a stain).  I just get lots of little red specks, not really a continuous color.  It basically becomes a pigment stain, and fills the grain with specks of color.  Now, for a colored topcoat, it would work fine.

[Dphariss]

Shellac (real shellac) is a good sealer under real boiled linseed oil.
I would not use it any other way.

Dan

[Mad Monk]

Back when I was doing my stain and finish work I "tested" information found in the tech books on various types of finishes.
Finished one sample block of maple with shellac and another with a spirit varnish made from a copal resin.  They went outside with the oil and oil-based varnish stocks.  With both the shellac and the copal spirit varnish as soon as it rained on them they failed.  Both cracked badly with just one shower on them.

The tech books from the industry stated that these two finishes had been widely used indoors but not outdoors.  That the only varnish that will hold up outdoors is an oil-based varnish.

Shellac saw a good bit of use as a finish on wood floors.  Though it is hard and briitle it could easily be touched up.  Then when needed it was easy to strip off the wood floor with a scraper.

Bill K.

[smshea]

Ive used shellac on quite a few rifles with good success. Usually on eastern Berks or Lehigh guns where the owner will let me. Ive tried flakes and alcohol and even zinzer out of the can and never really had a problem. If you build it up slowly(french polish) and let it really harden and get a good coating of wax on it , its pretty tough. While I would not let it stand out in the rain over night, I have hunted in the rain and snow, freezing weather, hot sun.... no problems. The only problem Ive ever had were from a solvent problem and it was very easily fixed. I now tell people to read their labels keep alcohol based solvents and whiskey away from the gun . I wouldn't use it on every gun  but where applicable, It makes for a beautiful and "tougher than one might think" finish.       

[Dphariss]

As Monk indicated I think people should paint their spirit finishes on a piece of their preferred stock wood and then leave it out in the weather for a few months (should it last that long). Home boiled linseed oil or soft oil varnish will survive months with little or no damage. Its why they did not paint the exterior of houses with spirit varnishes.

If you look at the majority of original guns with "varnish finishes" you will find no chipping or cracking in the finish even if it is 150+ years old. Rounded dents are not even breaks, the finish conforms to the dents. I, and others, have seen this in MLs and late 19th century breechloaders that still have finish. But few people think to look that close. Its the result of using high oil content finishes.

This rifle is typical.


The varnish, I am sure,  is a reddish brown oil based varnish.
The finish is worn away in areas where there was a lot of wear.
In other areas there is no checking or crazing, no pealing. Just wear, dents and dings. I looked as close as I could for this for sort of thing, through the glass.
Had it been finished with a spirit finish chances are it would be mostly gone.

Dan

[Stophel]

I have seen some old guns that apparently were finished with a spirit varnish top coat, and there were just a few odd flakes of it left.  Oil varnish wears through, but won't flake, chip, or fall off (well, so far as I have seen).  Where it is not handled, it will turn dark over the years.  It's usually called "oxidation" but as I understand it, that's not what it is...I think it supposed to have something to do with the lead dryer rising to the surface or something like that...

[B Shipman]

1. Shellac is an excellent barrier against humidity, this shrinking and swelling we see in longrifles. But it is the worst choice for direct contact with water. It simply gets cloudy and even gummy. A glass containing a cold drink will leave a permanent clody ring on a piece of shellac finished furniture.

2. Linseed oil varnishes,hard drying oil, will shed water but will easily let humidity through.  This is why linseed oil was used in house paints. It prevented peeling by leting humidity in and out. Take one in the woods in snowy slush or rain for the weekend, and you will not get your ramrod out. Resins added help, especially for durability but but these will still shrink and swell dramatically. 

3. Combining the two with shellac as a sealer works very well. I think you really need to get into modern stuff like Permalyn sealer and epoxy rubbed into the end grain under the buttplate to beat it.

[Dphariss]

It is virtually impossible to keep moisture from entering a wood stock especially a kentucky rifle with a lot of surface area for its weight. It can be reduced but it cannot be stopped. This is the reason for  plastic stocks and laminated wood on modern rifles.

Finishes that are hard enough to be waterproof will virtually all fail since they are not *elastic* enough to  move with the wood. "Flexible" is not "elastic" BTW. As a result in the few hot and cold cycles the finish will likely pass more water than linseed oil. Remington used a shiney plastic finish years back that could actually be heard to crack when brought in from the cold. See the "out in the backyard" test above.

Many like to believe that newer is better. But this is often not the case. Often the "new" is actually worse.

Dan

[smshea]

 Bill

 That is why I never recommend anyone leave their Manhattan Glass on their butt stock..... mine however, is covered with white rings.

Seriously though .... Ive watched snow come down and melt all over my "WELL WAXED" shellac covered rifle all day long with no problems. Just clean it when your done and your gonna do that anyway. Nor have I had any customers rifles with shellac finishes come back with water damage .
 
 Its not the look you want for every longrifle and I would say its out of place in most instances but if that's the look you need I wouldn't hesitate to use it correctly.

[B Shipman]

The wax may have done it. Nothing can resist a cold Manhattan.

[smshea]

Just ran to make another one..... I'm working on a pretty good shellacing right now. Half waxed at the moment with only one cherry left.... I think im safe!