original rifle sights

[dave gross]

I have seen very few early flintlock rifles and a few more 1850 era halfstocks and one common feature of most of them is the very low sights.  The front sights usually barely rise above the plane of the top barrel flat and the rear is a very low cross bar with a tiny file cut as a sighting notch.  Have any of you fired rifles with these types of sights?  I would be interested in any comments as I recently made a set of "authentic" (very low) sights for one of my rifles and found it nearly impossible to sight the rifle as the barrel warmed due to the front sight swimming in the heat waves.  How did the old timers cope with this......any ideas?Dave GrossWay down east in Maine

[pulaski]

They didn't shoot in contests with 20+ shots . Hunting and survival was a one shot and move proposition .
Steve

[doug]

      you also need very young eyes and lots of light to use such small sights and tiny notches

cheers Doug

[Daryl]

This is the sight on my 14 bore hunting rifle.  While it isn't a barely corn, it's as low as-is the rear sight and makes for a dandy target sight as well.  Being as low as the sights are, it doesn't take many shots, especially in freezing weather, before things get a bit blurry and jumpy, but the rifle is so accurate, it doesn't miss much.

[SCLoyalist]

According to a product description in Track of the Wolf,  "Original longrifles were nearly always fitted with "fine" (low) sights, in the mistaken belief that the low sights reduced sighting error."     I'm not sure why that would have been the belief, but it may be that in the old days nobody saw the need for a '6 oclock hold'  and a 6 oclock hold  is where deep notched rear sights and square front posts shine.    And, except for combat situations fighting Injuns or redcoats or whatever, one shot was probably all you were going to take, so heat mirage wasn't a factor.

[Dphariss]

I have seen very few early flintlock rifles and a few more 1850 era halfstocks and one common feature of most of them is the very low sights.  The front sights usually barely rise above the plane of the top barrel flat and the rear is a very low cross bar with a tiny file cut as a sighting notch.  Have any of you fired rifles with these types of sights?  I would be interested in any comments as I recently made a set of "authentic" (very low) sights for one of my rifles and found it nearly impossible to sight the rifle as the barrel warmed due to the front sight swimming in the heat waves.  How did the old timers cope with this......any ideas?Dave GrossWay down east in Maine

Rifle matches might be 15 minutes or more between shots. Everyone shot one shot then the targets were checked. Barrel heat is not a factor.
In hunting, especially small game, low sights are an advantage since the sighting plane of the sights is closer to the ball than with high sights. At least that was apparently the theory.
They shooting with an AR-15 sighted for 100 yards the high sighting plane makes close range precision difficult. But shooting men the elevation issues disappear.  Trying to hit a golf ball at 30 yards can be a problem. The low sighted Kentucky will have no guesswork involved. Put the sight on it or maybe hold 6 oclock if the rifle is zeroed for 110-120 yards, and its a hit.

Later guns, the circa 1835-1850 S Hawken rifles for example, often have higher sights like this one which is about the same as many modern sights used by custom makers today.


Dan

[northmn]

One other advantage of low sights is that they are more durable.  A rifle can fall over from being propped up for example and they are not apt to be damaged.  As to heat mirage, you do not need to shoot one to get mirage.  You can also get heat mirage on hot days.  Possibly why sights evolved to our higher types.

DP

[Dave K]

Yes, I have a couple of old orginal guns with those low sights. Now, I have not taken them to a competitive shoot, but for hunting and my  eyes, they are perfect! Both of mine are small bores, one in 38cal.  with a 36" barrel, the other is in 33cal. with a 41 1/2" barrel. Both guns had been out of action for many years when I acguired them. I didn't need to adjust the sights at all, just loaded them and shot as the sights were found and they were right on.

[Daryl]

The lower the sights, both sights, that is, the less elevation is given with increases in powder charges.  The 14 bore above shows this trait. Doubling the powder charge in the big gun from 3 to 6 drams increases the midrange impact no more than 1 1/2". With much higher sights, this would run 2-1/2" to 3 or even 4 inches.   This lackof bullet/ball rise is most important when shooting very small animals, or those which bite back. Where do you aim at a charging animal at 20 yards when the ball is 4" high - 6 o'clock of what to hit the brain? Too - squirrels and rabbits bite dang hard - and they usually only jump THIS high.  just funnin.

[Dave K]

Daryl, you are sure right about that. At least  these small bores, are never used for long range and  the game and close range they are used for, they are pretty flat shooting. I know I have shot out to only 75yds. and it is not a problem at all. My load in both guns is pretty similiar at 40gr and 35gr. of 3F Swiss respectively. A big game gun would be very different. Here in Ohio, in the mid 1800's, there were not that many big bore guns made and used here. Most were in the cal. range that I have.

[Daryl]

Spot-on, Dave.  My .32 drops only approximately 2" at 100 yards from a 50 yard zero. I thought originally it was dropping 6", but found it was already 2 1/2" low at 50. Once filing off front sight height for 50 yard zero(1/4" low at 25) and working up to 35gr. 3f for it's load, I found to to be the flattest shooting rifle I have.

Incidently, there is no difference in accuracy at 25 yards with that rifle with from 20 to 35gr., but at 50 yards, 20 to 30 shoots 2" to 3" while 35gr. drops them into an inch even.