Elk load, 58 cal, new guy questions

[flinchrocket]

I can’t remember now who it is that has the personal text at the bottom of their post that reads “ Get close and whack ‘em hard “, but that is the best advice for hunting with a muzzleloader.

[Pukka Bundook]

It appears  schmidty3,
That you have your mind made up, as in your replies you are a bit critical of the advice giver by those who have decades of experience.
If your mind Is made up, have at her and I hope it works for you.
I have hunted elk about 40 years.
Only advise I Will give is some passed down to me regarding elk;

"Always expect the unexpected"

All the best,
Richard.

[HighUintas]

I'm interested in the why FFF vs FF for a 58 rifle. I've looked around quite a bit and it seems most people say they use FF. Then Mike says to use FFF and I'm second guessing what my plan will be for powder!

I'm thinking I won't have my gun finished in time for hunting season anyway, so I have plenty of time for second guessing.

I also hunt elk, in Utah, and I take the opportunity for a shot immediately when they are in range of my ability, even if there's a chance I could get closer. With the amount of pressure on these elk, there's no telling when another hunter might show up while you're closing the distance. I plan to sight mine in for point blank range being ~125ish depending on what the good load ends up being.

[MuskratMike]

My reasoning is very simple. I have a couple of cases of 3F and no 2F It shoots fine in all the calibers, uses less powder (in my 54 caliber 75 grains of 3F is the same velocity as 93 grains of 2F). Can shoot all day without cleaning the barrel. Accuracy is just what I want it to be.

[smylee grouch]

If you have some of both 2f & 3f shoot some groups. One might group better or recoil less. If you think your getting too much fouling it might be that you are using too lose of a load or the wrong lube.  More reason to experiment. I have shot 40 plus shots in one shooting session with out having to clean because of fouling and that was with 110 gr. of 1 & 1/2 powder. 

[Daryl]

I tend to work up loads for both 3F and 2F for rifles .40 and larger. I use 2F in rifle calibers .50 and above.

[Ezra]

I use .570 ball with a spit lubed pillow ticking patch and 100 grains of GOEX 3fff.  I use the same 3fff for my priming powder.  Works for me.


Ez

[smylee grouch]

Flinchrocket's reference to " get close and whack'em hard " is pretty good advice and the more powder and lead you use the harder you can wack'em. 

[Herb]

In 2009 I repaired an Ike Bay (Oregon Terr.).58 caplock Hawken for a hunter who had a permit for a prized unit.  (Hit Control+ to enlarge the pictures).

These are some of the test loads I shot.

I quit at 140 grains of Goex 2f.

I recommended 130 grains of Goex 2F.  So what did he use?  130 grains of Goex 3F.  And it worked.

[Herb]

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=66929.msg672157#msg672157

[Pukka Bundook]

It doesn't look like you could lick that 130 gr. Goex 2 F load, Herb!

[Herb]

Notice the three targets below the rifle.  The left one is with 1978 Moosic, PA Goex 2F, then Swiss 1 1/2F, and the right one is with Goex 2F made in Minden, LA.  The PA powder is 100 fps faster than the LA powder, and the Swiss 1 1/2F is 100 fps still faster.  BUT-  it is a HEAVIER charge.

Today I weighed five charges of powders which were measured with that adjustable measure set at 120 grains.  I poured each charge from the can with no tapping or settling.  Here are the results:
Moosic, PA Goex 2F  averaged 117.0 grains
Swiss 2F 121.3 grains
Swiss 1 1/2F 128.8 grains.  This is 11.8 grains more than the Goex 2F charge.  This is why I came to make weight-corrected measures for each powder and weight I test.

For comparison:  Olde Eynsford 2F charges averaged 118.9 grains.
OE 1 1/2F 110.9 grains.
OE 1F 111.9 grains.  I have not yet shot this powder.

[Austin]

Id go with Brooks recommendations, hes forgot more than we remember

[Mike Brooks]

Id go with Brooks recommendations, hes forgot more than we remember

Thanks for your vote of confidence Austin. My suggestions only apply to deer hunting in the Midwest.  Out west is a totally different game, At least they seem to play it by different set of rules.

[Bsharp]

Sight your rifle dead on for 75 yards! [ I tend to shoot high when in a hurry]
A double lunged bull can cover 150 yards stumbling down hill, learn how to make "tapered paper cartridges".
It is very hard to reload while running!
You will have an erg to shoot brown or even a 'Texas Heart Shot',  [DON"T]  aim for the base of the head on the second shot.
Think like a bow hunter!!!
Hunt the thick and not the open.
120FF is a good place to start.

[Darkhorse]

Many years ago, in my 20's, I set up a LA rifle with a peep sight for that 6:00 hold you describe. So the first morning a real nice buck gave me a standing broadside shot at 50 yards. Extremely confident I aimed at the bottom of the deer and missed it completely.
I always try to learn from life's lessons.
That was 1976 the first year I purchased a muzzleloader rifle.
Now I hunt deer with a .54, flintlock only, 70 to 80 grains of 3fg and a.530 ball. I have bowed to age and installed a peep sight on my rifles. I sight dead on at 50 yards. Out to about 65 yards I am able to place my shots at any point I choose on the side of a deer. This comes in handy when given questionable angles or the animal is partially blocked by foliage.
I don't remember the last time I missed my deer. I also hunt turkeys with my .40 flintlock (legal in my state) and have harvested several without missing one yet.
This is to say I think you have a bad idea and failure would not surprise me.
Also you need to listen to people with years of experience who are trying to help you. You just seem to want these gentlemen to agree with your ideas, not offer good advice.
Where I come from we call that rude.

[bigsmoke]

I don't recollect your saying what the twist of the rifling is.  The slower the twist the more powder you can accurately use.  Emphasis on accurately.  Let your rifle tell you what it wants, don't try to make the gun bend to your desires.  It ain't gonna work.
As far as your patches go, yeah, it does look kinda blown out.  If you want to cure that, it is very simple.  Get yourself some 24 gauge, pre-lubed cushion wads.  Load powder, cushion wad and PRB.  The wad will wipe and lube the bore, it will prevent the patch from being burnt out, and you will pick up an additional 50+ fps.  Sounds like a win-win-win to me.
John (Bigsmoke)