back to work on the English half stock

[Justin Urbantas]

I finally found some time and motivation to get back to work on my English half-stock gun.

It's in a nice piece of English walnut with a buffalo horn nosecap with a Chamber's late Ketland lock.
I have two 32" barrels in .62 rifled/20 ga smoothbore that will be interchangeable with the hooked breech.
I did screw up the hook breech on the rifle barrel, and will have to make another one from a standard plug.

I'm planning on having it in shooting shape for the shotgun shoots at rendezvous at the end of the month.
The metal polishing, engraving, and checkering will have to wait until this winter when I have more time.

I got the lock in, bolts drilled and tapped, and the trigger installed in the last week or so.
The buttplate should be in today or tomorrow, then on to triggerplate and guard.

[Feltwad]

Question if too represent an English sporting gun why have you not fitted a proper English breach plug, I have always found that fitting  a flintlock to  a barrel  with a rear screw plug always seem to  knock the proportions out   or alternative  to  cut a v  in the  thread of plug only asking
Feltwad

[Justin Urbantas]

Mostly because I couldn't find anything, let alone two of them. Seems like all the manufacturers stopped making anything suitable.

[smart dog]

Hi Justin,
The Rifle Shoppe has what you need for the breeches and Jason Schneider at Rice barrels showed me his new standing breech they are making.  It is very nicely made I urged him to make a version with extra metal on top of the tang so you can file a humped sighting groove into it.  I think he may do that.

dave

[Justin Urbantas]

I guess I'll look into that for my next one. I didn't see anything about those breeches on the Rice website.

[Feltwad]

Question if too represent an English sporting gun why have you not fitted a proper English breach plug, I have always found that fitting  a flintlock to  a barrel  with a rear screw plug always seem to  knock the proportions out   or alternative  to  cut a v  in the  thread of plug only asking
Feltwad

This is what I mean
Feltwad

[RAT]

I ordered an English hooked tang from the Rifle Shoppe on 1/13/2021. I'm still waiting.

[Ron Scott]

The breech's made by Rice are very nice!!!

[smallpatch]

The Rice breech is a copy of an original Nock breech.

[smart dog]

Hi Justin,
You are fine with the hooked breech that you have.  Based on your lock, your gun would be consistent with the late 1780s through early 1800s.  Most better quality sporting guns will have a chambered breech as Feltwad showed but I've seen some without that feature. Not all of those would be "Nock" breeches either because there were several designs.  Here is a half stocked Mortimer sporting gun from the 1780s that I helped restore.  It has a standard hook and standing breech with no powder chamber.  The plug or threads for the hook are notched at the vent hole.







Note: the lock is held in place by a single lock bolt and a lug in the front that hooks into a screw head imbedded in the lock mortice.  By the 1780s, this was pretty universal on sporting guns.

dave

[taterbug]

Always great to see things going together, and the documentation and pics are greatly appreciated.  Really looking forward to seeing that butt plate go on as well. 

Thanks for this!

[Justin Urbantas]

That is a beautiful gun Dave. I'd love to see more pics if you have them.  I was originally planning on doing one lock bolt, and a hook for a screw, but on the late Ketland I only have about 1/3" forward of the mainspring available.  I guess that if I want to mess around, I could make a whole new mainspring to get more space, and plug the forward bolt hole in the stock.

1790s is kinda what I'm going for with it. For a while Jim Kibler said he was going to make a waterproof pan version of his late Ketland lock, but I don't know what became of it. I was hoping to use that lock.

[Feltwad]

Enclosed is a image from a early Ketland sxs flintlock shotgun showing the hooked type of rear  rear breach plugs
Feltwad

[smart dog]

Hi Feltwad,
Here are two standing breeches (on the left) from original flintlock sporting guns from the 1760s. 



One feature I like about them is the slot is tapered toward the top so that the hook, which is also tapered, snugs up in place.  The hook and standing breech have remained as snug today as they must have been 250 years ago.

dave

[Justin Urbantas]

I got back to it today.  Finished up the buttplate and got the screws in. I'll countersink them later.  Also, almost got the trigger plate in. Just a little left tomorrow, then drilling and tapping it for the triggerguard.

[Feltwad]

Hi Feltwad,
Here are two standing breeches (on the left) from original flintlock sporting guns from the 1760s. 



One feature I like about them is the slot is tapered toward the top so that the hook, which is also tapered, snugs up in place.  The hook and standing breech have remained as snug today as they must have been 250 years ago.

dave

Have  worked on many of this type of standing breech the iron forged pin that secured the bottom of breech could be a problem to remove  they were carried on into the early percussion guns  till they were changed to a small screw into the base from the trigger guard .
Feltwad

[Dennis Daigger]

Just a side note distraction. That is a very nice thin shell walnut blank with grain in the wrist that is really well laid out for strength.

Dennis

[Bob Roller]

A few years ago I made a few locks on the L&R 900 externals with a refined mechanism like the 14 I made for the Twiggs and have wondered whatever happened to them.I doubt if there is any interest in them now but if someone has one can it be posted? I think they may have been put away for "future use" and will never be seen or used.I got $400 each for these.Looking back,I think it was only 2 of these locks with the fancy mechanisms.
Bob Roller