Author Topic: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock  (Read 2096 times)

Offline smart dog

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Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« on: September 02, 2022, 02:05:20 AM »
Hi,
I got another project checked off.  A few years ago, Dave Price gave me a bin of old original locks in various states of disrepair. He didn't think he would ever be able to use them and wondered if I would like them.  I said yes immediately and I have worked through that bin over the years using bits and pieces of the locks for repairs, restorations, and new lock projects. Almost all of it is gone with almost nothing wasted.  In the batch were two locks that were almost complete. One I believe is a 17th century German or Dutch flintlock without any internal bridle.  The other was a lock by William Grice probably from the 1770s.  I've resurrected the Grice lock and turned it into a great sparking and working flintlock.  Here are the parts of the lock at the start.
   


I cleaned them up and had to add a sear spring from a Siler and replace all the screws.  I recut the ovalo border on the lock plate and flint cock, re-engraved "GRICE" on the lock plate, and did some welding here and there to add metal lost to wear and corrosion. I heat treated all components The result came out well.  The lock is fully functional and sparks like mad.  I am not sure what I will do with it but it is a very attractive lock.  Grice was a famous contractor to British Ordnance but he had a lot of civilian work as well.  The tumbler has an early, what I call , "neck tie fly".  It was used during the late 1760s and early 1770s. You can imagine how difficult it was to cut the channel for it into the tumbler.  The other question, is why the fly?  What was the lock used for?  The only reason for a fly was to either use a set trigger or be able to adjust a simple trigger to a very light pull. So what was the lock used on.  It is the size of a large Siler so it is hard to see it on a pistol.  Was it mounted on a rifle with set trigger, something documented in England?  I don't know but here it is.






















enjoy.  Next up in the near future is that Dutch or German lock.

dave
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 02:09:14 AM by smart dog »
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Offline ed lundquist

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2022, 02:47:55 AM »
Never saw a fly like that, very cool!

Offline Keith Zimmerman

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2022, 03:36:29 AM »
Shes a beauty.  Im sure you will a great project for it.

Offline Clowdis

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2022, 05:34:14 AM »
I like the fly design also. Thinking outside the box.

Offline M. E. Pering

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2022, 06:09:10 AM »
That is a fascinating post, Smart dog... Always great to see any original ancient work. 

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2022, 06:43:31 AM »
Very cool. I saw a couple of antique lock parts listings for sale and wished I had the skill to do something with them.

If you need a new home for that lock, let me know  ;)

Offline Curtis

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2022, 08:11:08 AM »
Dave, this is an incredibly worthy project!!  Kudos to you for bringing the lock back to life, putting all the other parts to good use, and to Dave Price for collecting and preserving all those old parts.



Curtis
Curtis Allinson
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2022, 01:53:53 PM »
Maybe someone wanted absolute certainty that the sear could not get involved with the tumbler and this was the answer.
A simple hollow end mill can make that cut but some tricky filing around that hole is needed but a filing guide can be made
IF a lathe is available.That's a good job of reviving a relic that deserved to be restored.
Bob Roller

Offline smart dog

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2022, 05:15:52 PM »
Hi,
Thanks for looking and commenting.  I added a few new photos showing the pan closure and sparking.  I added the original top jaw screw after straightening and cleaning it up.  I also modified the shape of the replacement tumbler screw to make it look a bit more like I think it should for the time period and lock style. It should be a good lock.  I will leave it for now and detail it a bit more when I use it in a project.  Now I have a good authentic 1770s English lock I can use. 











dave


« Last Edit: September 03, 2022, 06:27:43 PM by smart dog »
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2022, 05:27:12 PM »
That fly isn't too uncommon and is a great design.  I've built a few locks with it.  One was a detailed bench copy of RCA 42 I built for Wallace a number of years ago.

I find that pan interesting and rather odd looking.  Any thoughts?

Jim

Offline smart dog

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2022, 05:54:56 PM »
Hi Jim,
The pan is very deep, which makes it look unusual. 


I wonder for what gun it was made.  It actually looks a lot like the lock on Grice's prototype rifle he submitted to British Ordnance in 1776.  If it was used on a rifle, that might explain the fly even if the rifle had a simple trigger.  The fly would allow the trigger pull to be very light.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2022, 08:23:45 PM »
Yeah, that is interesting.  I was also looking at the outside of the pan and the somewhat unusual shape.  Any ideas on this?

Offline smart dog

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2022, 10:21:48 PM »
Hi Jim,
The glare in the photos kind of obscures some of the details.  The pan is faceted like a Siler on the bottom and those facets continue up the sides but are rounded a bit. That is uncommon on British guns but there are examples.  Here is a gun I made with an exact copy of an early lock by Twigg.



The pan is faceted but much shallower and wider than the Grice lock.  There is a good example on plate 42 in Neal and Back's "Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790".  It is a rifle by Probin.  Other than the whims of the maker or his customer, I have no idea why the difference from the normal rounded pan and pan cover.  The shape and depth of the pan on the Grice lock is different than anything I've seen before. It hold a very large volume of powder if filled.

dave




"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2022, 10:32:26 PM »
Nice.  Thanks for the lesson!

Jim

Offline Chris in SE PA

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2022, 06:33:29 AM »
Dave,  beautiful work as you always do.

If you need another project I have an old original musket lock that I'm eventually going to build a fowler around. It works but definitely could use a good tuning.

Offline runastav

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2022, 07:59:43 PM »
Nice locks Kloke Hund ;) They use the same fly in Danish/Norwegian jegerrifler see drawing
Runar




Offline Mick C

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!!!
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2022, 07:12:12 PM »
That is a GREAT looking lock that anyone should be proud to have on a rifle or pistol.  Hats off to you!!!
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Offline heinz

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Re: Resurrecting a 250 year old English lock
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2022, 05:16:32 PM »
Dave ,thanks for taking the trouble to do that detailed post on an incredibly interesting lock.  Many times I wished I had a fly that did not just "fly" when I was cleaning the lock.
kind regards, heinz