It’s shooting OK, but patches look weird.

[Chocktaw Brave]

I’m not sure what I’m looking at here with these patches. I shot offhand today with the 50 caliber flintlock, and had about a 3-1/2 inch group at 50 yards.

I decided to see if I could find some patches, and I came up with these. They are a little dirty because it’s pretty muddy out here.

[jgraham1]

Hard to tell, can you provide a pic of an unused and a used patch together for comparison?

Jerry

[Roger B]

You are blowing some patches. I would get some 12 Oz denim & put it on the bench to eliminate the human error as much as possible. I usually go with 5 to 10 thousandths undersized balls. Most often 5 with the denim. It can shoot much better.
Roger B.

[Chocktaw Brave]

Patches are .015 from TOTW, I tried thicker pillow ticking, like .018, but it is real hard to load.
Ball is .490( .492 when measured) from my RCBS mould.
60 grains of FFFg
FFFFg for pan
Patch lube is 5:1 mix balistol and water.

[Roger B]

That's a reasonable load. You may be cutting patches when loading through a sharp crown. Try polishing the crown with 800 grit sandpaper & your thumb. Cut a small square of sandpaper & place it under your thumb on the muzzle. Rotate the barrel 10 or so times, then reverse the rotation for the same number of rotations. Repeat until you get a nice, smooth, crown without sharp edges. Failing that, you can polish the bore with green Scotch rite pad. Just put a piece of pad on an undersized cleaning jag pull it up & the bore until the pad gets worn & then switch pads. Repeat 2 or 3 times. This is a method championed by the late,, great, Don Goetz.. You are not likely to hurt the barrel with either method. I'll bet that the crown polishing will suffice.
Roger B.

[Chocktaw Brave]

I think you’re right on the patches cutting on the way in. It does take a bit to start. Plus I noticed when I used a T shirt rag to clean the barrel on the Jag, that it was actually trying to cut the cotton T-shirt material.
As soon as I can find some 600 grit sandpaper, I’ll take it back out to the range and try it again.

[Daryl]

Your muzzle's crown is cutting the patches as you load the patched ball into the muzzle.







Rotate your thumb, now and then, rotate the rifle so your 'ground and polished' crown is concentric.
It's an easy 5 minute job ANYONE can do.
I use 320 grit emery or 320grit wet/dry paper.

[Chocktaw Brave]

Thanks,
I just found out the test that I have to take has changed, now I have to hit four shots out of five in a 4 inch bull’s-eye at 25 yards.
Sitting, kneeling, prone or standing.
Although prone is more accurate, it will be a pain to get up and down between a shot. I’m probably going with standing.
And my bones don’t like sitting or kneeling much anymore.

[flinchrocket]

Ok, I give up. Where do you have to take a qualification test to hunt with a BP rifle? Russia?

[Chocktaw Brave]

You can hunt regular season with muzzleloaders here, (heck you can use a spear if you want), but there are specific moose hunts that proof of qualification is required.
Like Archery only hunts.
They are issued by a drawing each year, but you have to be qualified to even put in for one.

[Daryl]

Ok, I give up. Where do you have to take a qualification test to hunt with a BP rifle? Russia?

Ditto!
What state and county is that, please?

[Jeff Murray]

Thats weird.  Do you have to demonstrate your ability to dress and pack the meat.  A moose is way different than a deer when it comes to processing in the field.  Seems like the wizards have their priorities backwards.

[smylee grouch]

It seems that there are some European countries that require hunters to pass a shooting " test ". 

[Daryl]

Yes, Smylee G- you are correct. Germany is one such country that has a shooting accuracy test that must be accomplished.

[flinchrocket]

When I was in Germany deer were almost nonexistent. And if I remember correctly, you had to be invited by a game officer to even go deer hunting. So, your shooting skills are really a non issue and you will have plenty of time to practice, because it’s unlikely your ever going deer hunting.

[Birddog6]

Hate to say it but it may be all you.  Sand Bag the rifle front & rear & eliminate human error.
It may be shooting a cloverleaf group at 50 yards.  There is no way to determine the load until
you eliminate the Variables. The main variable right now is You. I have seen some guys that can't
even flinch the same.  Yet they swear they are Rock Steady.

Also, just for fun, Try a grease type lube & look at the patches.

 

[Chocktaw Brave]

I’m in Alaska,
The hunting reg is about half how to not waste meat( you get fined if you do) and the other with detailed(translation confusing) paragraphs on the outline of a specific hunt area.
Example;
From mile post 235 to the confluence of the tatlanika river and fish creek, south of the West Bank to the drainage of gold creek, then north to the top of Tookalook mountain.....

 Better have a compass and know how to read a map as well as the terrain.

I have some traditions lube that came with my .58, I’ll try that today.

[Daryl]

I know nothing about Tradition's Lube. Neetsfoot Oil, or Track's Mink Oil work very well.
You won't know until you try it, though, as far as clean shooting and easy loading.
Forestry topographical maps help.

[Chocktaw Brave]

OK so I took a little paper to the barrel crown, then tried the same patches with the 1000+ traditions lube.



image upload

It didn’t do too bad, but I could not find one single patch. About too much garbage on the range.

[Birddog6]

I think the cleaning up on the crown helped & the offset grouping is you.

Next time, say you are going to shoot a group of 5 & stop at 3.
Do it all over on another target.

Sometimes when I shoot a group of 5, allot of times I will pull the last shot.

If you are swabbing the bore, Be Sure to do it Exactly The Same each time &
same amount of liquid, All the way Down, & straight back out.

Swabbing the bore is NOT cleaning the bore. Swabbing between shots keeps
the bore with the same consistent amount of fouling.  After 5 shots, take a
breech scraper and clean the face of the breech off.

Was that top right hole the first shot ? It looks different. But if it is the first shot
you need to shoot a fouling shot & swab before you start the groups.  That is
pretty far off, so maybe a dif time on that target.

[Chocktaw Brave]

Kieth,
Thank you,
The picture is actually turn sideways that first shot was down and right
Could’ve been me flinching too,  or not having my site picture correct.

Other five shots were slightly to the left of center.
It was sighted in pretty good last week.
I’m using a different lube for the first time with these shots, so that could account for the left grouping.
I am swabbing between shots, one wet patch, two dry patches.
I’m not familiar with a breach scraper, where would I get one of those?

[Darkhorse]

2nd Target. 1st row. First patch on the left.  Except for a small tear that is about what a good load should look like.
The rest are too dirty for me to say.

3rd target. All these patches are blown. None are good.

I speculate that if you follow those instructions about smoothing the bore your patches and accuracy should improve. If these were shot with 60 grains 3fg (I remember seeing that on a target, maybe not yours) then you have some sharp spots that need smoothing out. I would never expect 60 grains to do that to a patch.

[Daryl]

That's looking better Chocktaw Brave.
When I looked at an enlarged patch picture of the first row of patches, I see perhaps one cut in the first patch and more in all the rest, with 7th patch blown.
Consistency in loading is about 50% of the rifle's accuracy potential. The rest is in the load.  Consistency also means exactly the same pressure on the powder
of the patched ball.  I place my short starter (with appropriate hole) on the end of the rod & give that a smack with my palm.  I have found this reduces shot to
shot velocity spread and also increased the average velocity. The reason is that is improves the burning of the powder, making it more consistent shot to shot.
Black Powder ctg. shooters compress the powder charge, usually using a compression die to EXACTLY the same amount in each shell, anywhere form .050" to .250"
depending on the shooter and powder/load used.
Emulating this in my muzzleloaders has improved my average accuracy.  It pays to pay attention. Experimenting with different combinations and methods for me is never done.
What works, works very well indeed.