Did I screw up my liner installation

[HighUintas]

I installed my liner this evening. It's a 1/4-32 white lightning. I took my time on my press.... A lot of time... To make sure everything was square and lined up to get my hole location correct. I tapped it and it was all good. Then I countersunk it... Too far. I chucked the countersink into my press to make it square and turned the drive wheel by hand and operated the press with the other. I turned it very slow, but it cut so fast I sunk down past the actual countersink portion of the bit to the flat very quickly. I think that left me with no countersink on the outer edge of the vent hole and no threads about 1/16 it a touch more in the vent hole. I think I still have 4.5-5 threads of engagement of the liner with the hole though. I haven't actually done the final install of the liner.


Can I proceed as is or will it not be pressure safe and also look like garbage when I file the liner flush with the barrel flat? I'm guessing if there's no countersink on the outer edge it will become loose when I file it flush, right? Do I need to now order the 5/16 -32 liner and redo this?

The countersink is only about 0.255 in diameter. That's the widest TOTW carries. Maybe I could find a wider 90* countersink and hit it with that? There's plenty of bevel left on the liner above the barrel flat. Or, would an 82* countersink be ok? I've got a 3/8" 82* I could use to get a countersink on the hole.

[rich pierce]

That looks like a counterBORE not a countersink. I think you’ll need a machinist to make you a vent liner to match your situation unless it can be re-drilled and tapped for a Chambers white lightning liner. I’m not sure there’s any shoulder in your current setup. The countersink bevel acts as the shoulder for the liner normally.

[smart dog]

Hi,
I think a 5/16" white lightning line will solve your problem.  I used to set things up in a drill press as you did but don't bother anymore.  I just use a hand drill, small bit first, then the size for the tap, tap the hole and use a hand drill and countersink.  In the time it used to take to set up it all up in the drill press, I am done.

dave

[Bob Roller]

On the few of these I have done I drilled the hole,countersunk the depth of one thread and then tapped it
A drop or two of threading fluid was also used.I hope that picture is posed because it is showing an angle
that is not compatible with accurate work.
Bob Roller

[HighUintas]

On the few of these I have done I drilled the hole,countersunk the depth of one thread and then tapped it
A drop or two of threading fluid was also used.I hope that picture is posed because it is showing an angle
that is not compatible with accurate work.
Bob Roller

Yes, I was holding the countersink there to be able to get the picture.

[Eric Krewson]

I would go up to 5/16" on the liner and buy a bigger countersink. after I screw the liner in after countersinking the barrel, I cut the lug off slightly above the barrel and lightly peen the excess lug metal into the countersink before I file it flush with barrel. If you don't have perfect mating surfaces the peening will fill the gaps and make the installation more invisible.

[HighUintas]

Hi,
I think a 5/16" white lightning line will solve your problem.  I used to set things up in a drill press as you did but don't bother anymore.  I just use a hand drill, small bit first, then the size for the tap, tap the hole and use a hand drill and countersink.  In the time it used to take to set up it all up in the drill press, I am done.

dave

I've done that a few times and it only works out part of the time for me. I have a hard time keeping my hand drill plum while drilling.

If I use a 5/16 White lightning liner to clean up the existing threads, I think I may have to notch the breach plug face by 1/64. No issues there, right?

And just to be sure, is it a bad idea to get a larger diameter 90° countersink to be able to put the countersink back into the existing hole?

[HighUintas]

I would go up to 5/16" on the liner and buy a bigger countersink. after I screw the liner in after countersinking the barrel, I cut the lug off slightly above the barrel and lightly peen the excess lug metal into the countersink before I file it flush with barrel. If you don't have perfect mating surfaces the peening will fill the gaps and make the installation more invisible.

Eric, peening the liner in after cutting it off and before filing it is something I had planned on doing. I found an old thread where Jim Kibler said that either an 82° or 90 to degree countersink will work, but if you use the 82° countersink you would want to peen the metal in on the liner before filing flush, so that you get a better mating surface on that countersink. I was thinking I could do this with the current hole, since I have a larger diameter 82° countersink, but I'm not sure about the small amount of area under the countersink that would basically just be a counterbore. I could also get Tracks larger diameter 90* countersink, but once again am not sure about the small Threadless area right underneath the countersink.

[HighUintas]

The reason I'd like to use the existing hole is because the white lightning I have from TOTW (1/4-32) is carbon steel and I wanted the metal to match and be invisible with the barrel. That is the only size white lightning they carry that is carbon steel... The others are SS.

[rich pierce]

The reason I'd like to use the existing hole is because the white lightning I have from TOTW (1/4-32) is carbon steel and I wanted the metal to match and be invisible with the barrel. That is the only size white lightning they carry that is carbon steel... The others are SS.

If you call Chambers they have non-stainless steel liners made of the stuff most barrels are made of.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The tool you used to "countersink" your hole is far too small.  I use a 3/4" countersink and turn it by hand in the drill press with the belt off the motor.  A very gentle countersink is all you want.  You have plunged your tool down into the threaded hole creating a recess like that done by a drill bit, with a countersink in the bottom.  This won't work at all with the white lightning liner.  You need to go up to a 5/16 x 32 liner, drill bit and tap, and a proper countersink...should be able to buy one that will work at any hardware store that sells tools.

[smart dog]

Hi,
You don't have to notch your plug.  The vent hole is going to be in the same place relative to the breech plug.  Just make sure the threads of the liner do not interfere with the plug threads.  Grind the liner on the inside so its threads just reach those of the plug.

dave

[Spalding]

Embarrassing as it is, I did the same thing. That countersink TOTW sells for 1/4” is junk. It “catches” fast and before I could let off, it counterbored instead. I just went up a liner size and all was well.
Get a good countersink bit from McMaster Carr or such and make sure it’s larger than your hole.
Here’s the one I used.
https://www.mcmaster.com/3098A24

Bob

[HighUintas]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. It certainly made me feel like a dunce after spending so much time getting everything squared up and plumb on my press.

And yes... I went with TOTWs tool/part list recommendation for the 1/4-32 white lightning liner. That 1/4" csink definitely is too small.

I talked to the nice gentleman at MBS. His white lightning liners ARE from Chambers and said they're 82* countersinks. So even though I had to go with a SS version, I ordered a 5/16 from him because he's given me plenty of help and parts, it's generally one day shipping from him to me, and I'm not blueing or browning my barrel so it shouldn't stand out too terribly much. I also have a 3/8" 82* csink on hand that works pretty well. So I'll just redrill/tap the hole in the next couple of days and be extremely careful with the csink. I'm having to make some concessions on my build due to trying to be able to hunt with it in the first half of November. I have some eye health issues that could leave me unable to hunt in the future so I'd like to be able to use it at least once. That's why quick shipping is important and a SS liner will be just fine. I'll go back over the winter and add some of the other items to the rifle that are needed like a patchbox, maybe forestock molding if I don't get there, and maybe a cheek piece eagle inlay. I'll have to refinish it after installation of these, but that's ok.

As a sidenote, I read somewhere that DPhariss and I think Dennis glazener recommend not tapping the hole all the way through into the bore so that there is a shoulder at the bottom and it's less likely to collect fouling in exposed threads that would be there if you tap all the way through. That sounds nice, so I may try that if it is worth doing.

[Eric Krewson]

I tap all the way into the bore, screw the liner in and mark it on the inside of the bore so I know how much to grind off, I pull the liner and remove the excess to keep any of the liner out of the bore.

for the final installation I coat the liner with high temp anti seize and screw it back in, with that stuff there is no fowling getting into the threads, nothing is going to wash it away. 

[Birddog6]

I thread it all the way in & then take a tiny carbide burr & grind it flush to the bore & the rifling.
Then I brush across it with a Qtip & if it catches any fibers, I work it a tad more til it doesn’t. That
way it doesn’t tear my patch on the jag when swabbing or cleaning.