Lock sparks poorly need suggestions

[Scota4570]

Hi,

I do not want to offend the outfit that assembled it, lets not go there. I just want it to work.

I assembled a Baker lock from the same make casting set, it works fine.  The cock requires about 9# to pull it off halfcock.   

The link it to another Baker lock.  I did not assemble it.  I did address several things to make it less sloppy and operate smoothly and without friction.   It fires the rifle about 80% of the time.  To my eye the sparks are too few.  The sparks  mostly do not land in the pan.  They seem to be directed foreword, many to the side.  The mainspring takes 6# of force to pull it off half cock. 

Today, I case hardened the frizzen, a file skates across  it.  I am thinking I should open up the mainspring and re-heat treat it.  That change may make it strike a little harder an make more sparks?  Now....The guy who made the lock does his heat treating strictly by eye.  I use a a lead bath to draw springs to 750* with a thermometer.  Maybe re-heat treat it as is before I open it up? 

I made this rifle as a gift.  The owner is very excited.  I want to make sure he gets a reliable rifle.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O_MIUzZB741CEzGFZe4cUYmnQYSiXivD/view?usp=sharing

If the link does no open copy and paste to Firefox?  It does not work in Brave for me. 

[rich pierce]

I’ve found that a high carbon frizzen hardened but not tempered at all may not spark well and may break. I’m hoping you at least tempered the pivot hole and toe area locally.
The spring seems strong enough to throw the frizzen back.

[Scota4570]

I did draw the frizzen.  The pivot area  up to the base of the striking surface cut with a file.

On the one I assembled I did not use the sear.  From the full cock notch  rotation of the cock was about 1/4" foreword.  Another way to say, I could pull the cock back another 1/4" from full cock. 

I swapped my long sear into the troublesome lock.  What do you know?, it works better. 

I wish I figured that out before RE-RE-RE heat treated it and  I got the frizzen hot enough to crack the face when I quenched it. 

 

[Tim Crosby]

 Where on the frizzen is the flint hitting, it looks low.

    Tim C.

[Bob Gerard]

I had a small-sparking lock (brand new one) and when I flipped the flint with the bevel reversed it showered sparks.

[Daryl]

With the bevel down, as it is, that particular flint is striking as high as possible.
Appears to want to spark, as it did a few times - rather odd.
That lock should be showering sparks.
Did you try bevel up?
Did napping the flint not help?
Did you try a different flint?
At what temperature/colour did you temper the hammer?

[Scota4570]

The flint is striking high on the frizzen.  I have trashed a bunch of flints testing.  I have tried bevel up too, the frizzen does not open right.  I do knap flints.  I have made the frizzen so hard I cracked the face, I also drew it to light straw.  I tried a whole other frizzen too. 

I am getting really mad.  I paid a lot for the assembled lock.  IMHO the work quality was quite poor.  The maker has decades of experience and a name to defend. 

I got as second identical lock as a casting set.  My work is MUCH better.  My lock is smooth and snappy.  Mine sparks fine and operates like it should.

I think I will give him a call and see if he will fix it.  If he quotes me an extended wait time I will order another casting set and make a quality lock out of it. 

[Hungry Horse]

 You may have heated your frizzen to to point you burned much of the carbon out of it. Ask me how I know. If you did overheat it you will have to soften it back up and half sole it with a high carbon face.

Hungry Horse

[heinz]

It appears to me that lock is slow,  Try putting a wooden shim in the V of the main spring.  This is a temporary fix to see if the spring is too weak.  In my experience, sparks going in front of the pan are coming off the bottom of the frizzed face, when th flint has had to drag across the frizzen without biting any metal until the angle got very acute.

Many folks out there have reputations built on making things that look pretty because a lot of folks don't really shoot their MLs much.  LISTEN to any advice you get from the Sapergia brothers.  They build them and shoot them.  They are getting prepared for when their Prima Minister outlaws cartridges.

[Scota4570]

I agree with the slow assessment.  There are several other things I consider issues.

I made and identical lock from the same batch of castings parts set.  Mine is made to much tighter tolerances, the fit and finish is better, the action is much snappier.  It works well enough. 

I have contacted the maker and the lock is in the mail for repair.  If it come back not to my satisfaction I will order a parts set and make an other one myself. 

[Darkhorse]

Looks to me like the frizzen is to hard for the flint to cut, instead it is skating over it, cutting small weak chips. After you sharpen a flint do the sparks look any different?

[Bob Roller]

The fit and finish is important as is the preloading on the main and frizzen spring plus the compatiblity of the curve of the frizzen face and the circular movement of the cock.I haven't made a lock of any kind for about 3 years but did find the small Ketland and the Chet Shoults version preferred a frizzen face radius established by a 5" grinding wheel.I made my own mechanisms which reflects my attitude toward the foundries of years past that had no concepts about quality control.
Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Your demonstration video shows one thing for certain:  that is a tough lock - those springs sure got a workout!

[Bob Roller]

What I see is a frizzen spring not offering enough resistance to the fast action of the lock's mechaniism.

Bob Roller