Has anyone seen this barrel end marking?

[marko]

Has anyone seen this barrel marking before?


image hosting

[T*O*F]

Yes, it's a very common decoration.

[Mattox Forge]

The exact design, no, but I have seen a number of German, English, and American muzzles decorated with various designs. Were you asking if it was specific to a particular maker?
This is a John Bass barrel from circa 1793. The ring engraved around the rifling is slightly visible in amongst the pitting. There may have been dimples on each land, but the pitting is as deep as they probably were.

Mike

[Tanselman]

Several makers in Kentucky [and elsewhere] used the inner and outer rings with a circle of small, punched dots in between. A few makers punched small starts between the rings instead of dots. Your rifle also has 6-groove rifling, which is less common than the more standard 7-groove rifling. 6 grooved rifling was used by a couple of makers in central Kentucky. Can we see more images of your rifle, such as both sides of the butt to out past the lock plate, so we can enjoy seeing and knowing what you have?

Shelby Gallien

[marko]

I’m primarily interested in knowing the timeframe and locale or school of barrels with this marking.

Shelby, a number of photos and an extensive discussion regarding my rifle - which I’m pretty sure is an 1820-1825 Abraham Angstadt - are found at this thread:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=73860.0

Overall, 57” and 8 3/4 lbs. Stock is curly maple, roman nose; barrel is 42 1/4 inch octagon, swamped, and appears to have been bored out slightly to .44 cal. smoothbore, possibly .40 cal. originally, 6 grooves, as pointed out, above. The lock is most likely not original to the gun.

Here’s a collage:



And the cheek:

[rich pierce]

Muzzle decorations are not a good indicator of when and where a longrifle was made. Architecture and lock and furniture styles are good indicators. Your gun sure looks 1815 +/- 10 years to me.

[marko]

Yes, it's a very common decoration.

Do you have any rifles with this muzzle end barrel marking? I haven’t seen any with it other than mine and the faint one posted above by Mattox Forge.

Anybody else?

[marko]

Several makers in Kentucky [and elsewhere] used the inner and outer rings with a circle of small, punched dots in between.

Can you be more specific? Gunsmith names?

Your rifle also has 6-groove rifling, which is less common than the more standard 7-groove rifling. 6 grooved rifling was used by a couple of makers in central Kentucky.

Again, can you be more specific? Gunsmith names?

Thanks!

[jruff5585]

I have an early back action Remington Barrel with that design. As soon as my camera is back in action I'll post a pic

[Tanselman]

Six-groove rifling was used in central Kentucky by several better makers in/near the Bardstown School. The Rizer & Weller shop made all the earlier Bardstown rifles with 6-groove rifling, and several gunmakers who learned the trade in Bardstown continued to use 6-groove rifling in nearby counties. Those included Madison Hubbard, Charles Weller, David Weller when he moved to Elizabethtown, and Benjamin Davenport for several years when he moved to Lebanon in Marion Co.

Shelby Gallien

[Tim Crosby]

Six-groove rifling was used in central Kentucky by several better makers in/near the Bardstown School. The Rizer & Weller shop made all the earlier Bardstown rifles with 6-groove rifling, and several gunmakers who learned the trade in Bardstown continued to use 6-groove rifling in nearby counties. Those included Madison Hubbard, Charles Weller, David Weller when he moved to Elizabethtown, and Benjamin Davenport for several years when he moved to Lebanon in Marion Co.

Shelby Gallien

 Do you know if those makers also made their own barrels?

  Thanks, Tim

[Tanselman]

Tim,

Yes, the Rizer & Weller partnership made all their barrels, heavy swamp at breech and muzzle, remnants of hammer marks below stock line. I don't recall seeing "factory" barrels in the Bardstown School until the mid-to late 1830s, when much of the "swamp" was lost. I believe David Weller did a lot of the blacksmithing [and barrel-making], since his father was a blacksmith, while Jacob Rizer did most of the stocking, at least through the first half of the partnership period. After about 1820 it became a mixed bag, as both men were contributing to all phases of manufacture.

Shelby

[marko]

Shelby Gallien and Mattox Forge,… thank you!

[LOZ]

I had a plain percussion rifle with a back action lock that had markings on the end of the barrel similar to that. The marks were like this  * . It to had an outside and an inside ring engraved around the marks that can be barely seen on your barrel end. That mark was also used on the top of the barrel before and after the makers initials which were WW.
I liked it enough that I put similar marks on the end of a rifle I built a few years ago.

[ntqlvr1948]

check out this barrel end