Drilling lock screws/tang screws

[Chocktaw Brave]

I’m getting close to the point of doing these, I have ordered a center guide to put in my drill press. I plan on using a copy of the rifle pattern to locate where the holes should be on the wood side of it. But how do I determine exactly where it should be on the lock side? And if I’m using the pilot I need a hole on the lock side to use as a guide, correct?
Any tips on getting these done?
Thank you!
Forgot to mention this is a Pecatonica full stock hawken. Screw heads will be in tear drop shaped plate.

[rich pierce]

On the lock side the hole for the single lock bolt on a Hawken needs to center on the bolster vertically. There can be wiggle room fire and aft but it must pass behind the standing breech. The lower you can get the lock bolt, the nicer the architecture on most rifles.

Herb and Taylor and others can say more with more experience.

[RAT]

I don't use guides or anything. I drill my lock bolt holes after inletting the lock plate, but before I inlet any of the internals.

First, I make sure the side plate panel matches the lock plate side with regards to thickness, taper, and squareness to the barrel.

I pilot drill the lock plate with a very undersized drill bit with the plate out of the stock. I then press the plate into the lock mortise.

Then I place the side plate side flat against the drill press table (which is square to the bit). I line up the drill bit to where the pilot hole is drilled in the lock plate and clamp it in place. Then I drill my tap drill sized hole. If using 2 lock bolts, I do the same with both. This makes the hole perpendicular to the side plate side so the bolt head sits flush.

I care where the holes are in the lock plate. I don't really care at all where they are on the side plate panel. As long as the bolt heads sit flush, I'm good. I make my side plates to fit the holes... not the other way around.

[borderdogs]

Hopefully Taylor or Herb will see this and lend their experience they have both helped me. I have used the U shaped drilling jig, the point to point jig like you mentioned and have drilled the lock plate and used it as a guide to drill through the to the side plate side. Technically there is a slight angle to the lock and side panels they are not parallel. And as Rich mentioned the lower the lock bolt is the better it looks and I think it looks better on plains rifles too.

For me I like the method you are planning on using but what I have done rather than wing it is a I draw the panels out for both sides and place the location of the bolt on both drawing then I use transfer paper to put it on the stock. You can do that on a stock blank or even on a shaped stock it works. I try to do this early in the layout of the stock. Once you have the layout of the panels its easier to see where the side plate will be to the outline of the side panel. This is one of those area that you have to study because of the side plate location, if it is high it will be close to the line of the side panel and that can limit how you shape the side panel. If you look at the bolster of the lock it should be somewhat back and low on the bolster if that makes sense.

Take a look at Hershel Houses video on Hawken Rifles he doesn't use a jig but he locates the bolt hole low and at the back of the bolster. Good luck
Rob

[smylee grouch]

After drilling an undersize hole through the bolster I like to counter sink that hole on the inside of the plate slightly so when I drill the tap sized hole the drill picks up the hole in/on the inside of the bolster easier. Seems to work well for me.

[Chocktaw Brave]

Kinda hard to see in this photo, but these are the side plate pieces I plan to use.

The small teardrop shaped ones. Due to the hooked breech I do not think I will get too close to it when drilling the rearmost screw.

[elk killer]

Grumpy Gunsmith on you tube has a great video on drilling those,,,,Clay Smith

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

On all of the guns I build, when it comes time to drill for the rear lock bolt, I centre punch the bolster in the lowest and rearmost point in the bolster that will support the screw and not run out through the side.  It would be easier to show this with a photo but I'm having trouble finding one, so pls excuse my description.  In other words, as far to the rear and as low as you dare.  Drill the tap drill hole in the lock plate first.  Re-install the lock plate in the lock's mortise, set up the stock in a vise on your drill press table so it is square with the drill bit and drill through the hole in the plate and the wood with the tap drill.  Remove the lock plate from the wood.  With a clearance drill bit in a hand drill, enlarge the hole in the wood so a tap will pass.  Re-install the lock plate in the wood, and tap from the offside through the wood into the lock plate.  Turn the tap 1/3 turn, and reverse to break the chip.  Continue tapping like this until the tap emerges through the lock plate.  Remove the plate, clear away the chips on the inside of the mortise.
After you have finished the offside's surface, and have filed the edges of the lock washer with a slight draft, pass the lock screw through the washer and the wood into the lock plate and turn it down securely.  Now trace around the washer with a sharp pencil, remove the screw and the washer and inlet the washer/escutcheon.
This sequence of work has worked for me for close to 300 muzzleloading guns. 
The front screw hole is done a little differently.  When you were inletting the lock plate and especially when creating your blueprint to ensure all of the parts lined up correctly, I hope you positioned the lock plate so that the forward screw would come through the plate in the centre of the forward boss of the plate and pass beneath the barrel without interferring with the rod hole.  Either way, by measuring the barrel and plotting it and the web between your barrel and the rod hole on the offside of the stock, you can determine where the lock bolt must pass.  Mark it's position on the offside panel and centre punch it gently.  If you are confident that the screw can pass through the stock beneath the barrel, through the web, and into the centre of the plate's forward boss, you can mark and centre punch the lock plate where you want the forward screw to go.  Then drill it with the tap drill.  Re-install the plate into the mortise, secure the gun in the drill press vise so that it is square with the TAP drill bit, and go ahead and drill through the hole in the plate, the wood and out the offside of the wood.  Inlet the escutcheon the same way you did the rear one.
That's a lot of words that a short film or photos would have described more effectively.  Go slow, use common sense, and enjoy the process.

[Chocktaw Brave]

So on the rear most bolt you’re talking About something like this?

And it makes sense that I wouldn’t need a jig if the sides of the stock are parallel. And the lock plate is sitting level in the stock. I still have a little bit to go to get the pan flush with the barrel. I’m wondering if the bolts will help pull that up, or if I need to get it flush before drilling the bolts.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Yes, that's the spot.  I'd go ahead and drill for the lock bolt now.  Without knowing what your inlet looks like, I'd saw the lock bolts may dray the plate up tightly against the barrel.  But those two screws should only be snug, not tight.  And a comment for your next build, if I may.  Your lock could have been 1/4" further to the rear.  The edge of the pan's fence would still have been adjacent to the standing breech.  This would have been more obvious with a scaled drawing of the rifle, a step perhaps you omitted?  But you're in good shape to drill the plate, flat on a piece of wood on the drill press table.  To get the hole through the stock in line with the one in the plate, take the drill bit out of the chuck and stick it in the hole in the plate with the lock plate resting in the stock.  Arrange the stock in the vise or on the table so that the drill bit goes into the chuck squarely, and secure the stock.  Now you can drill through the lock plate and wood knowing the hole will come out the other side in the right place.  Another way to accomplish this, if the panels are not parallel to the barrel's bore, is to place a level on the edge of the barrel and move it around 'til it is square with the drill bit.  I suggest you check your drill press table too, to ensure that it is square with the world.

[Chocktaw Brave]

“And a comment for your next build, if I may.  Your lock could have been 1/4" further to the rear.  The edge of the pan's fence would still have been adjacent to the standing breech.  This would have been more obvious with a scaled drawing of the rifle, a step perhaps you omitted?  “
Thank you.
Well, that would have been better, but this stock was pre inletted. I was not ready for a scratch build just yet. My next one will be from scratch, or maybe a Kibler kit, as I have heard very good reviews on them.
So working with what I have, I will try and make it work. I was also worried about the touchhole being too close to the seam between the barrel and breech plug for a liner. Which if the lock was further back would also not be an issue.  Another issue I have is that the tang inlet was cut a little bit too much on the lock side where it flares out. There’s a small gap there that I will have to fill with wood.

[taterbug]

mentioned a couple times above, but I'll mention it again here separately.

Make sure the table on your drill press is square with the bit, in BOTH directions (all directions really).  Easy to check, with a simple 'indicator' made up from bent wire coat hanger, if nothing else. 

many less expensive drill presses are not square, and take a bit of tweaking to get them set up.  I have one of those, and it was causing me a bit of frustration until I figured out what was going on.     

for future builds, many stock sellers will sell a stock with as much, or as little, inletting as you request.  You can omit some inletting to give you more freedom with some parts.  it will also give you opportunity to learn more aspects of building before jumping into a build from a plank.  Pec river used to do that, not sure if they still do.

[Herb]

I do just as Taylor says in the first half of his post.  I used to put the lock bolt at the rear lower corner of the bolster.  But I ran into a problem.  Here is how I drill the bolster for the lock plate.  Level and square with a centering drill.  Tight into the top rear corner.  Then I install the lock in the stock and drill the tap hole through the bolster hole and stock, in the vise, level and square.  Next, I remove the lock and drill the clearance hole through the stock.  I replace the lock, clamp it in place and tap the bolt hole through the stock.

This is the correct location for inletting the sideplate.  The Bridger Hawken photo in the background.

One of my Carson Hawken copies.

This is a Pecatonica stock not inlet for the lock.  This bolt was put at the lower rear corner of the bolster.  I don't know why it came out in the center of the left lock panel rather than the top.

Another of my Carson Hawken copies.

The Kit Carson Hawken side panel and lock bolt escutcheon.

[Chocktaw Brave]

Ok, well I went ahead and drilled them both, rear screw came out nice. front screw came out just inside the barrel channel. But a slight groove in barrel and it does not interfere. I would rather have that than have it in the ramrod channel. So I think I erred to the top on that one.







With the screws snug, now I can barely slide a slip of paper between the pan and barrel. It appears to be hitting slightly on the rear shield of the lock. If that’s what it’s called. So it should not take much to bring it home.
But looking at the pan position, I may go with just a flash hole, instead of a liner.

[frogwalking]

There appears o be a ring of steel proud around one of the threaded lock screw holes.  This may cause the bridle to fit poorly.  It would be easy to smooth the lockplate in this area.
Am I the only one who has put the front screw through the ramrod hole?  No one mentioned to locate the rr hole and take this into consideration when drilling the front lock bolt hole.
If these comments are amateurish, just consider the source.

[Chocktaw Brave]

Thanks,
With some inletting black I saw the ring you were talking about. It’s still has a very small gap, I just need to keep taking it in and out with the black showing me where to trim.
There are flaws in this rifle indeed, but I hope it is teaching me how to improve on the next one. And I WILL take a moose with this one. 
Crossing my fingers I get the permit for a December 2023 hunt!

[Daryl]

About that vent.  I see your point about the vent, however there was someone on here selling inside chamfer tools for reducing the inner web on drilled vents.
 This is VERY important in respect to ignition speed. Any help it can get, is good.

[bluenoser]

That would be Tom Snyder.  Tom's tools work very well.
I have and have used them.