English gun parts questions

[Chuck Burrows]

I've got a couple of questions regarding dating parts on English guns, in particular Sporting Rifles and hope someone can help or point me to a resource:

1) About when did the English guns start using trigger guards that had the stud on the front end that screwed into the trigger plate?

2) About when did they start using long tangs with two bolts attached to the trigger plate?

The reason for my questions is these two methods were used by the Hawken Brothers here in the states after 1825, and were no doubt inspired by the English guns they saw. I am working on an article regarding the early Hawken rifles and their fittings and if I knew when the English guns started using the two methods above it would give me a date to work from.

Thank you for any help you may provide,
Chuck Burrows

[Dphariss]

I don't think the British ever did use a long tang and two screws on ML guns. At least not consistently.
I believe the Hawken brothers came up with this to reduce broken wrists in horseback use.

Can't help with the stud thing suspect its in the 1780s though(?).
Dan

PS if the Hawken's did not get the long tang idea from some other American?

[smart dog]

Hi Chuck,
I am not sure when they stared using 2-piece guards like you see on many English percussion shotguns.  I suspect that the first quarter of the 19th century is probably right.  Several British gunmakers used longer (not as long as Hawken rifles) barrel tangs and 2 screws on duck guns in the 18th century.  The duck and goose guns were heavy, long barreled guns capable of handling heavy charges.

dave