How About a Man Size Powder Horn....

[Tanselman]

I know tiny horns are neat, but doesn't size really matter? Here's a really, really big horn that retains a very nice, graceful shape and is well plugged with a little compass-type carving at the horn's base. While the tiny horn might be cuter, I bet this one was cheaper on a cost-per-pound basis. No one really needs a horn this big, but it looked so neat I couldn't resist it down at the Tennessee Show a few weeks ago. Only thing that would make it better would be a big Tansel eagle on the front! Dimensions: outside curve = 23-1/2", inside curve = 18-3/4", butt plug diameter = 3-7/8", butt plug height = 13/16", spout tip = 4". 

Shelby Gallien

[HSmithTX]

Very cool!  I am working on an overly large horn myself right now. Not a monster like that but still quite a bit bigger than it probably needs to be.   Got the plug fitted and looking for inspiration on the rest,  good timing for this post!

[Tim Crosby]

 Neat horn, wonder if it could be a storage horn or Long Hunter horn. Great base turning and the pull looks just right. That tip looks like it should screw off.

  Tim

[rich pierce]

Rough estimate of when and where this big horn was made?  It just what I like.

[Tanselman]

Tim - The tip is integral to the horn... I've never seen a screw tip on a storage horn this large, and if I had photographed the tip from a slightly different angle, you could see that it bends with the general curvature of the horn.  This is a right-side carry horn, so perhaps it was carried at times, but it's so big, I doubt that it was carried very much.

Rich - I'd think this was probably a Pennsylvania horn based on the small, scalloped design at the base and its pleasing form, perhaps about 1800. The high, turned plug is walnut while the tip is faceted, but the throat remains round, so despite the tip's facets I doubt it was a New England horn and lean toward an early PA horn. Let's see what the learned Mr. Crosby thinks!

By the way, the horn has light script initials of "J S M" just above the base.

Shelby Gallien

[Tim Crosby]

  I knew the tip was part of the horn it just looked like it should screw off, it is very well done. As for origin I go along with Pa. idea but because of the shape of the tip, the facets and the shape of the butt I would throw Virginia in as possibility as well.
 I can't imagine carrying a horn of that size full of powder. Not saying it wasn't I just wouldn't want to add that much weight, maybe it was carried on a pack animal or saddle?
 It is a Great horn, I can see why it followed you home.

    Tim

 

[Tanselman]

Tim ...
I need your help on where this horn was made. I have no reference book that illustrates VA horns for study or comparison. After your intriguing comments, I'm now hoping this big horn is a VA horn... those guys pay more money for their stuff than the PA guys ever did! But where can you see/study pics of VA horns and get some idea about the details they share or that helps identify them as VA horns?

I've got the single Valley of Virginia horn with the two-piece, screw-out butt plug that you made a "related" copy of last year. But it looks nothing like this big horn. Is your knowledge from seeing and handling known VA horns, or is there a book or magazine article somewhere that might help me on this quest? What about the plug style in particular, with its tapered, raised nose? I've seen that detail on a limited basis from a number of areas, and always thought it represented a budget horn where the maker didn't want to waste time turning a fancier plug. Is that a shape that is repeated at times in VA? When I'm not playing with Tansel horns, I'm at a loss at times.

Shelby Gallien

[Tim Crosby]

  I have seen a couple similar horns with that tip and butt style but not on the same horn. One was labeled as a Valley of Virginia horn. Let me check through some books and photographs here and see if I can find Pix. I will also send the Pix of yours to a couple guys who may have some ideas if that's alright with you.

   Tim 

[mr. no gold]

Well Shelby, you are a big guy so a big horn befits you! This is a 'great' horn, (yes pun intended) and it's the best one I have ever seen; the largest, nice spout, finely turned butt plug, and some carving. This one has it all! 'Great' find, (oh darn, there's that word again) and I am grateful to you for posting the photos here; thank you!
Dick
 

[T*O*F]

I can't imagine carrying a horn of that size full of powder. Not saying it wasn't I just wouldn't want to add that much weight, maybe it was carried on a pack animal or saddle?

I would venture to say that it was used on a flat or river boat plying their trade on the Ohio or other rivers.  They usually carried a small deck gun in case of pirates or injuns.  They needed a larger powder charge.

[Tanselman]

Use of a large powder horn on a flat boat or river boat is a fascinating thought... since they often carried a larger gun for protection. I never considered a big horn being used with a big gun. I'm guessing that possibility might also extend to larger bore wall guns and swivels that were used at frontier posts/forts as well. Don't know if it's significant, but the spout opening is a good 3/8" in diameter, pouring powder rather quickly and perhaps too large for use on a standard American longrifle. Or maybe it was made for a really, really, really big supply of percussion caps!!!!

Shelby Gallien

[Tim Crosby]

 Shelby, I did hear back form Jay, he said you got it form him so you probably know this but here is what he had to say: "I always thought it was New England in origin because of the complex carved neck/spout area, but the use of a brass furniture pull at the butt for strap attachment would raise the question of a Virginia origin."
 The reason I thought Va. was like I said I thought I had seen the tip and butt before but not on the same horn, also a pull like it was used on one but it did not have that shape of butt, it did have a similar tip. I've been through all my books, folders and Pix but cannot find what I am looking for. I somehow lost a binder in moving to Ohio that had many Pix of horns I'd seen over the years and that is probably where they where. 

   Tim

[Tanselman]

One of the great values of this site is providing us with a venue to show "different" type items and get feedback from a number of knowledgeable people. I mostly enjoy the items that are not clear-cut on what they are, and cause debate, and at times a little deeper thinking.

I would appreciate additional thoughts on if/when raised walnut plugs were used in New England. I usually think of raised walnut plugs as farther west, or southwest, with soft wood plugs most often [but not always] used in New England... and usually flatter or less high in appearance. Then again, this could be from Minnesota and Paul Bunyon's person horn!

Shelby Gallien