Author Topic: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?  (Read 1372 times)

Offline HSmithTX

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best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« on: May 04, 2023, 10:55:16 PM »
I have a blank and a barrel, to me it looks like it needs to be a Moll or a Rupp, I would like to be early and the earlier the better.  Are there any commercial plans that get the architecture right?  Fairly close would be OK with some coaching on what isn't what it should be.  My barrel is a 45 cal 13/16 straight and 36 long,  I know it's short but should work well for a light and handy paper puncher.  I will machine a slight swamp into the barrel just because I can.  This is my first blank build, precarve up to this point, and I would like to end up with a nice rifle.

Thanks!

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2023, 11:19:12 PM »
Eric Von Aschwege

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2023, 11:58:00 PM »
That isn't a good choice of barrel.
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2023, 01:03:51 AM »
Just to be completely blunt, you aren't going to do it realistically with that barrel.
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2023, 01:26:44 AM »
You definitely need a swamped, larger barrel, if it’s going to look anything like a Lehigh.
Especially if Moll. Earlier, and beefier. (Not sure that’s a word)

Eric’s plans are the way to go.
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Dane

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2023, 02:31:14 AM »
What size/type of barrel would work best? I'm a novice with regards to this sort of thing and I'd like to know

Offline rich pierce

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2023, 03:38:10 AM »
What size/type of barrel would work best? I'm a novice with regards to this sort of thing and I'd like to know

“Moll” and “Rupp” cover many decades and individuals. An early Moll might use a C or D weight barrel. A later “classic Lehigh” recreated for today’s customers who like guns lighter than most originals might use a B or C weight 44” barrel, possibly longer. A lot depends on whether wants a good looking rifle easily identified as a Lehigh or a close copy of a specific original.
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Offline smallpatch

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2023, 05:40:04 AM »
Well said Rich.
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Dane

Offline HSmithTX

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2023, 06:15:50 AM »
Thanks for shooting the idea full of holes, I do mean that, I appreciate the direct feedback a lot.  Way better to know now before I put a bunch of time in it and end up with less than it should be. 

The blank will only take a 38”ish inch barrel so it won’t work either.  Time to figure what it can be.

Thanks all!

Offline Frozen Run

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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2023, 03:25:06 PM »
Nothing wrong with a 38 inch barrel, it's the tiny breech that is the problem. You should fi d a correctly made Lehigh before you even attempt this. Originals ate hard to come by. Correcty made contemporary guns are even harder. I'd  only use a A Martin or an EK as your best examples. Erik Von A as well. At least go to their web sites and do a deep dive.  These are extremely hard to get right.
 
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Offline Gaeckle

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2023, 03:55:49 PM »
The barrel that you have could be a candidate for a halfstock rifle, but use a flintlock, not a percussion. Maybe something from New England area. A 3/4 stock rifle could also be had...just an idea

Offline smoke and flames

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2023, 06:56:28 PM »
Don't know if these photos will help  gun is signed J Moll










Offline HSmithTX

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2023, 08:22:50 PM »
Thank you all for the information, direct and/or blunt are my style. 

Mike, smallpatch and Rich, thanks for the explanations on the barrels.  The way the blank is cut I am not seeing much else really that it could be (maybe Berks?) without cutting it short making a boy's rifle that I have no use for,  so reviving the plan with a new barrel or selling the blank are solid choices. Buying a new barrel makes the most sense to me. I am somewhat aware of the issues with contemporary versions of these or I should say I am aware that not many are done architecturally correct and less done really well,  that prompted my question on what plans are solid. Learning that my barrel is not at all what I need is solid gold.

I am looking to end up with a nice rifle easily identified but probably not a close copy of any one original rifle. If I will learn more trying to copy a specific rifle than I will building a more generic version I would like to know that and why that is a better path?  I am fully intimidated trying to recreate these rifles but I am not afraid at all either, I will learn from it.  I'm not deep in the blank and I'll recycle it and start over if needed.  I have no delusions of doing builds for anyone but myself or maybe a gift, I really enjoy the work and single minded time spent doing it. 

Eric VA has a couple barn rifles on his site that I really appreciate but aren't necessarily specifically what I want, I spend a lot of time looking at Allen Martin's rifles and have since I became interested in longrifles. The double radius in the wrist and butt on these rifles is what draws me to them, can't really explain that. Eric K has a Bucks/Lehigh that I like a lot and a Berks I keep going back to look at but can't really explain why.  I keep seeing them all a little differently, I think that is what I appreciate most, the more you look the more you see or see differently.   

Offline ed lundquist

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2023, 08:49:44 PM »
The dvd from the Kentucky Rifle Foundation, 2010 Presidents Display "Lehigh Valley 1780-1820" is not expensive and has some good photos.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2023, 12:17:28 AM »
Quote
Thank you all for the information, direct and/or blunt are my style.
Wow! I was being nice too! ;D
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Austin

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2023, 04:56:53 AM »
You’re an old softy, Mike! Back in the day you would have been much more direct….
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Offline Goo

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Re: best commercial Rupp/Moll plans?
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2023, 04:27:35 PM »
You might want to use that barrel for a pencil thin North Carolina gun.
 
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