Author Topic: LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice  (Read 1263 times)

Offline hmccaskey

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LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« on: April 30, 2023, 04:56:05 PM »
A while back I restocked a TC Hawken I have had since 1978 with a Pecatonica Stock. The original stock bruised my cheek badly so I stopped shooting it some 35 years ago.   With the new stock it's fun to shoot now.

I used iron hardware on the new restock.  Now I'm trying to blue the hardware to come close to the barrel blue.

I have never tried hot rust bluing.  After reading several post on this site I decided to try LMF Browning Solution.

I am using LMF Browning solution and following instructions.
400 grit polish on exposed parts.
I'm letting the parts rust in high humidity "sweat box" 80% to 90% humidity for at least 6 hours
Using distilled water for the scalding.  (dropping parts in boiling water and turning off heat. remove when cooled a bit)
Carding with denim and a small brush.
I just finished the third coat. Working on 4th now.

The color appears to be almost black. 
Is this correct?
Have I done something wrong?
Should I try a more aggressive carding with steel wool?
Will it turn to a more blue color with more coats or more carding?

Thanks
Hal


Offline J. Talbert

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Re: LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2023, 05:41:09 PM »
I have not used that particular brand of cold brown solution, nevertheless I believe it’s only going to get blacker with subsequent coats.

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell

Offline NRFord

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Re: LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2023, 05:47:22 PM »
i wouldn't do the fourth coat if you think it's too black. Card back to where you like it, neutralize, and soak in oil. It will continue to deepen with more coats...

Offline JLayne

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Re: LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2023, 06:18:02 PM »
I have used LMF on several barrels which came out with the almost black color you describe. I actually like it better than a lighter shade of brown. I would not worry about it. If you want it lighter, maybe card a little heavier between coats. I usually do six coats about three hours apart. The two rifles on the top in the attached picture were done this way.

Jay


Offline geb324

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Re: LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2023, 06:43:37 PM »
Did you remove the old blueing from the barrel before you started browning process?

Offline TommyG

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Re: LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2023, 07:26:06 PM »
At this point if what you are trying to do is match your hardware to the existing blue on the barrel, I would rub everything back with steel wool, don't worry about the pitting from the rusting, you just want to get the parts somewhat bright.  Then I would try Brownell's Oxpho blue.  From what you are describing, I believe this would be the finish you are after.  Easy to work with, and you can adjust the depth/darkness of color as you go. 

Offline kutter

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Re: LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2023, 06:46:33 PM »
The alloy of the steel will have some say in what the final 'color' of the bluing result is.
As will what rusting soln you are using, the degree of polish you go too (grit), how long you let the steel rust and probably a dozen other small variables.

You can go crazy trying to get the same (color) results on different steel components.

A couple things I would do in your case:
As long as you are polishing to 400grit, that is a high polish for rust bluing as generally done, but can be useful in obtaining a blue color more than a black tone. But you have to avoid over rusting the surface which pits the surface, more commonly called matted surface. That is what causes the light to NOT reflect back off the surface and gives the dark, black color to the bluing.

To avoid that matted surface, let the rusting form in a less humid and heated environment.
No artificial temp and humidity  needed.

Coat the parts and let them hang in the open air inside.
Even at temps as low as the mid to upper 60*F and humidity in the 70+% range,,the parts will rust though very slowly.
That is what you want.
Rusting times will be is days,,not a few hours.
I let the parts hang for at least 24hrs before I even think about they might be ready and they almost never are this time of yr.
I keep the house temp at 65*.
I usually takes 2 days at least to form a rust coating that will give a color coating when boiled. Sometimes more time is needed.
BUT, the advantage is that the rust coating formed is extremely fine and very hard to actually see. Just a barely seen reddish color to be seen with a flashlite shown onto the surface. If you very lightly drag your finger tip down the metal you should be able to feel the slight roughness of the rust coating.

That is all you need to form a color coating when boiled.  No more is needed and any more time rusting than that is just going to pit the metal which you do not want.

All this is what the the high grade makers do to get the very high polish finish on the bbls of the SxS bbls w/rust bluing.

Next is the boiling.
Distilled water is good.
Place the parts in the boiling water and let the water continue to BOIL. Don't shut the boiling process down.
Let the parts boil for 10mins at least . 15 is good.

Then remove them from the water and shake the excess water off. Blow any droplets off and/or touch the droplets remaining with the tip of a twisted papertowel to draw them off the surfaces.
Do not wipe down the parts with anything...
 Hang them and let them cool completely before carding.

Card with de-oiled steel wool.
Denim is OK if you are going for the rough finish with the matted look. But you want to remove all of the loosened debris from the surface AND burnish the color layer with the steel wool.

When you have finished carding,take a clean large paint brush and brush the part(s) down to further remove any loose carding debris (oxide and/or steel wood flecks) from the surfaces.
Any of that junk left on the surfaces will be caught up in the next application of rusting soln and will dry with it. It will cause tiny speck marks in the bluing color layer. Maybe not noticable to some especially if you are doing a rough matted look type of blue. But if a high polish, blue color look is the target, then the absolute cleaner the better.

Next reapply the next coating of rusting soln. Just dampen the swab. Don't wet it down and apply as that will disolve the color coating already on the part.
The less the better. It should dry in a few seconds.
Don't scrubb it in. Go over the surface once. Do not  re-apply over areas that you have already coated already.

As you get closer to your final rusting soln coatings, you can start to cut the soln % with distilled water.
50/50,,then even less. This will slow the rusting down even more and will help retain the high polish and blue color even more.

Rehang the parts for a couple days and do it all over again.,,and again...

It's a 'Slow Rust' for sure.

Offline HSmithTX

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Re: LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2023, 06:54:14 PM »
Kutter has the key points, and most important is to card with steel wool, most of the black will come off and it will be a lot more blue, to match the hot salt blue of the TC is going to be really hard, but 7-8 rusting/boiling/carding evolutions will get close. If you don't like it get the sandpaper back out, make the metal bright again and start over,  change one thing at a time. To get blue instead of black is a process that takes time.  You can force the rust some with heat and humidity, but you better be on top of it because if it goes a little long you will be sanding back bright and starting over. 

Offline hmccaskey

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Re: LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2023, 02:25:40 AM »
Thanks Kutter!

That is a great explanation of the process.  This helps a lot.

I started the process with the butt plate (cast) and toe plate (sheet steel) and yes got two different colors but close.
Before the 4th coat on the butt plate I heavily carded with steel wool and a lot of the black came off.  Blue started to show.

I am starting the trigger guard and nose cap now and will use your method.  If that works I will start over on the butt plate.

Will post back with results in a day or so.

Offline hmccaskey

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Re: Success - LMF Browning/Bluing Questions/Advice
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2023, 01:56:09 AM »
Success! 
I am extremely pleased with the results.  A deep dark blue that is close enough to the barrel color.
I really like the color.  May one day strip the barrel and use LMF to reblue.

What I did different.  Changed a lot at once.

No sweat box.
Sanded off the original experiment.
First 2 applications full strength but verv, very light application.
Carding with 0000 steel wool and some pressure (removed the black) between applications.
After application 2,3,4 boiled in distilled water for 15 minutes and let cool for 10 minutes and then hang to air dry.
Applications 3 and 4 with 50/50  LMF/distilled water.
After 4th application and carding, boiled in water/baking soda, carded lightley and then oiled.

Many Thanks for the help.