Two Carson Hawkens Nearly done- need advice

[Herb]

Both rifles are close copies of the Carson Hawken.  The dimensions are the same except Larry's (in front) has a 3/4" longer length of pull and 1/2" more drop at heel.  They were started from Pecatonica's barrel-inletted blanks with 7/16" rod hole drilled.  Larry's cost $300 and my Grade CM-2 cost $140.  I started his rifle in February 2022, but spinal surgery in March shut me down.  So I coached him to build it in my shop.  It has a 15/16" .54 caliber Rice round-bottom groove barrel.  I built my .50 caliber 15/16" Rice barrel copy along with his work, and it is "done" except more browning and the stock finish.  He used aqua fortis and Laurel Mountain Forge Nut Brown stain.   I put on a heavy coat of aqua fortis and tried to blush it over my electric stove, but it wouldn't turn brown.  I then used a propane torch (as Larry did) and even scorched the wood some, but it didn't turn brown.   I then used LMF Lancaster Maple stain and it went dark.  After five coats of Track's Original Oil finish, I realize I don't like that black color.  QUESTION- how to reduce the finish to bare wood?  I don't want to use a chemical finish remover and don't want to use sandpaper.  I'm thinking steel wool.  Any advice for me? (You can click on an image to enlarge it).

[Martin S.]

I can't answer the question, but those rifles sure look great to me.

I like the lighter color myself.  Did he blush it?

[CooleyS]

Sounds like a piece of maple that just reacted differently and the result is dark. I have used synthetic steel wool (3M grey or maroon color) using denatured alcohol as a lubricant when I wanted a lighter shade following AF or tannic acid. Good luck and I look forward to seeing the rifle finished…beautiful work!
-Steve

[Herb]

Thanks, Steve.  I was thinking of using alcohol as a lubricant with the steel wool.  I'll see how aggressive that is.  I m thinking of the maroon Scotchbrite.  Thanks!

[gusd]

Herb,
The dark rifle looks great to me. Wouldn't change anything.
Gus

[Herb]

Martin S.- I tried a hair dryer, but it didn't work.  Larry then used a propane torch, even scorched the wood some.  It didn't do much, so he applied LMF Nut Brown stain.

[Daryl]

Herb, personally, I would leave the dark one. With use, it will lighten in handled areas and look super!!(IMHO)
Nice plank on the red one. I prefer the dark stock for that style rifle.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Herb, I'm currently in the process of re-finishing a Hawken rifle I first built in the 1980's.  I had stained it with Fiebing's Leather Dye and finished it with TruOil.  So to remove the oil/varnish  and stain, I scraped it, then sanded it down to 320 grit, in preparation for re-staining with tannic acid and ferric nitrate.  Some of the old dye stain is still in the wood but I'm sure it'll cover just fine with the more aggressive stain.  In scraping, very little wood was removed - just finish.

[Herb]

Thanks for the replies.  I was thinking of scraping the finish, and that is what I'll do.  The stock can be sanded when the finish is gone.  This time, I'll use the Lancaster Maple stain alone.  This rifle is  for barter to my dentist, and the owner may never shoot it.  So it should look pleasing in color.  Here are some others I built and colors I like, except the Leman that I built in Green River Rifle Works shop in 1978.  (You can enlarge the pictures by clicking on them).

[Daryl]

The old Chromium Trioxide shines again. Green River is a good name for it, Herb - fitting.

[A.Merrill]

Herb, who does your color case hardening?    Al

[Herb]

There is no case hardening.  Some of these rifles had the metal coloring done with Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown & Degreaser.  Maybe  one or two had the barrel boiled after browning to get a blue color.  If a lock shows coloring, I did that with a propane torch. I like a worn look.  Too much heating will turn the metal a deep purple.  The first rifle (my full stock antelope rifle) has a deep blue lock color.  The second is less colored.  Heat coloring is very easy to do.

This is a Kit Carson Hawken copy.

My first Bridger copy at top with the lock color worn off.  Second, another Bridger copy.

Another Carson copy.

The Bridger Hawken at bottom, in the Missoula Museum, and my copy at top.  I steel wooled the lock color after this.

[A.Merrill]

Herb your rifles are really nice, good job.   Al

[Herb]

Al, I see you are from Marion, IL.  That was familiar, so I looked at a map.  Crab Orchard National Wildlife Refuge.  I never got there, but I was on the Mark Twain NWR at Quincy and the Upper Mississippi Wildlife and Fish Refuge at Savanna.  Also helped fight the Horicon NWR goose war to try to drive the Canada geese down to you.  That was when Lyndon Johnson was president.

[A.Merrill]

Yep, that's where I'm at. Geese don't fly south anymore it stays to warm up north. At one time Crab Orchard NWR would hold over 150,000 thousand  Canadian geese.  Ducks have been showing up a little more but nothing like back in the 60's and 70's. It's really sad. The Mississippi fly way has ended. Ducks Unlimited didn't help things eather. They built wetlands over in the Dakotas and that shifted the fly way west. Good duck hunting in Kansas, Oklahoma and western Arkansas.   Al

[stumbling buffalo]

Hi Herb,

Thanks for sharing your rifles. I'm trying to learn about Hawken's and like the look of your heat-treated locks. I'm not sure if lock plates and hammers are of the same type of steel as cast butt plates and trigger guards but so you think the propane torch technique would work on them, as well? 

Thanks, Guy   

[Herb]

All the metal Hawken parts can be heat blued.  I don't heat blue the barrels or the triggers, except the stripped trigger plate and trigger guard.  I strip the lock and blue the plate and hammer.  Don't heat any springs.  I use a propane torch with the smallest flame I can get and play it over the part.  It will  heat to yellow and go bronze.  Get the heat off, as it will continue to color.  Too much heat and it goes deep blue or purple.  More heat and it goes gray.  If you don't like an intense color, let the part cool and steel wool it back to white and start over.  This is very easy to do. 

[stumbling buffalo]

Thanks for the advice, Herb!  I'll try it on the next one I'm planning which will be a full stock flint rifle.  Adios, Guy