Author Topic: American? Relief carved musket/fowler  (Read 6236 times)

Offline debnal

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American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« on: January 21, 2010, 06:32:18 AM »
Just got this one. It came from the same source that I got the HVF I posted several weeks ago.
It is the top gun in the first few pictures. Has a 44 inch, .72 caliber octagonal to round barrel, slightly flared at the muzzle. Original flintlock condition, the end of the barrel is paper thin, the touch hole is enlarged, and the frizzen has been relined. The gun is basically in untouched condition. The front sight has been removed and a bayonet lug added for military use. The muzzle is slightly flared. The triggerguard and buttplate came off one gun, maybe a Dutch/Germanic rifle. The sideplate is totally different/simple and is not from the same gun, in fact it is very thin sheet brass. The wood is cherry, American, possibly. The butt architecture is American fowler style. The carving, much finer than on Dutch muskets, looks like the type carving used on Hudson Valley fowlers. There is a slight swell at the rear pipe. You can see that it is not symmetrical. The swell is not a Dutch feature and the fact that it is asymmetrical is not something  I'd expect to see on a European gun. Each ramrod pipe, although original to this gun, is different, again an American indication. There is a curved split in the wood on the right butt. It is filled with wax that is very old to prevent moisture from getting into the wood. Again, something you would not see on a European gun. I think all this points to an American made musket from the Rev War period that used many different parts. I also think it was made in NY by a gunsmith who made Hudson Valley fowlers. Comments are appreciated.















Offline Collector

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Re: American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 09:41:27 AM »
That squarish lug/front sight  is certainly suitable for a bayonet, I'd think.  Dual purpose piece perhaps?  What kind of wear is evident at the muzzle? 
You've gotta have something like 'attic penetrating radar' in your car  These are just great finds!  Thanks for sharing the photographs with us.

Offline debnal

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Re: American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 06:19:07 PM »
I took the lock out and there is a square cartouche with the letters IS in it. Has anyone seen this mark before?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 06:33:10 PM »
What a find!  I agree with your assessment, that it looks like an American restock of assorted parts including a Germanic rifle guard, a military style sideplate, etc.  definitely carving resembles some HVFs.  But the comb is Brown Bess-like.  Very cool to see how the front sight was originally fitted.  Thanks so much!  Would love to see the top of the buttplate!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 06:35:20 PM by richpierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline debnal

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Re: American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 06:50:03 PM »
Rich,
I agree with your observation on the butt architecture. I missed that. Definitely Bess/English. Here is a picture of the top of the butt plate.
Al

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 07:14:33 PM »
Quote
Has anyone seen this mark before?
Yes, On the bottom of the barrels of a pair of Booth  pistols, but I doubt they are relevant to this gun!
 I believe this gun to be  restock of a Dutch/Belgian trade gun. At least parts of it, mainly the buttplate and trigger guard and probably the barrel. The rest came from who knows where. Very nifty!
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 09:16:03 PM »
Was just looking at this gun yesterday at http://rhbantiques.com/Firearms.html  More pictures here

the auctioneer's description:  B0814. Dutch Officer's original flintlock fusil, c. 1770. Walnut stock with leaf carving. Brass mounts including cast butt plate with hunting scene. Front sight as bayonet lug. Elaborate cast trigger guard with sling swivel tang, figure of person and eyes. Barrel tang of engraved brass. Iron ramrod.

I was particularly interested in the slim tapered wrist ... is that architecture typical of any school/country??
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Offline debnal

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Re: American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2010, 03:54:50 AM »
Tim,
After seeing some of the comments I think the butt architecture is a combination of English (straight top of comb, including a notch) and French (bottom of butt curved) which translates to American in this case. I believe the slender wrist is more French than English.
Al

Michael

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Re: American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 04:45:13 PM »
The slim tapered wrist reminds me of the John Bumford beech stocked/ vine painted trade gun.


Michael

Offline Curt J

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Re: American? Relief carved musket/fowler
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 10:22:18 PM »
Fascinating! There are a surprising number of guns like this, obviously stocked here in the "Colonies" using recycled European parts. I have a couple myself, one that is stocked in cherry, that is primarily made up of parts from a sea-service musket; and another that appears to be stocked in ash, using parts from a Dutch fowler.  If only they could talk!