Lehigh lock panel

[ptk1126]

I am beginning my next project of building a Lehigh rifle in the style of Nathan Clause, based on the research I did at the Frazier History Museum.
On this particular rifle, Clause used a round tailed late English flintlock, 4 1/2" long by 7/8" wide. About the closest match I could find was the L&R John Bailes lock, on which I will have to round off the rear tail.

Here I have drawn the appropriate lines on the stock (Fred Miller Lehigh pre-carve, nice piece of wood)


This shows the Bailes lock in its approximate location on the stock, aligned with the reference lines above.


Before I start to inlet the lock I wanted to ask for guidance about the feasibility of using this lock on this stock and shaping the lock panel. I am concerned with the alignment of the lock at the rear in relation to the wrist and butt, and the amount of wood between the bottom of the lock and the bottom of the stock.

This is my fourth build and is likely to exceed my abilities, but I love the Clause style and will undoubtedly learn a lot.

Thanks for your help

Paul

[Stophel]

Is the ramrod really that close to the bottom of the stock???  That's literally paper thin!  Way too close for me.  The "web" also looks just too thick.  I generally go for 1/8" at the breech, and usually that works out fine.

[rich pierce]

That lock might be a little tricky with that precarved stock which as you say looks terrific.  The curvature is the problem that would be difficult for me. Am not familiar with the Clause guns but just study them and see how the locks were positioned and get it close.  I believe the builders varied things to make them work just as we do.  Sometimes we think we see a "rule" when in fact it was the combinations of parts that dictated a certain architecture.

[flehto]

If your layouts are correct, is this precarve useable seeing there's next to nothing below the RR hole? Don't know about a Clause Lehigh but on some other Lehighs the RR hole nearly touches the bbl inlet. Seems the RR hole is too low and the resultant web is too thick. I've got all the parts for a Rupp Lehigh but it's 3rd in line and will have to wait awhile. Does the Fred Miller Lehigh precarve have a stepped wrist and what size bbl does he use?....Fred

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I would hope that the rod hole is 5/16" rather than 3/8" which it appears in your layout.  If that is the case, and if the web is a little skinnier than you have drawn, you will be safe to take wood off the bottom of the stock at the lock panel.  Presently, it is very heavy there.  The Chamber's Late Ketland may be a better choice for the amount of wood you have to work with.
Anyway, find out exactly how thick the web is, and the rod hole size, and mark it accurately - then decide.

[ptk1126]

Rich: I agree with you about the curvature of the lock. Do you know of another lock with less curve of this approximate size ? However, it would still leave a lot of border unless I went to a wider lock.

Stophel: it does appear awfully thin. I am going to drill a small hole up from the bottom near the breech and use a gauge to determine the location. The web at the muzzle is 3/16".

Fred: The Fred Miller precarve does have a stepped wrist. He can do all sizes and shapes of barrels; mine is a 7/8" straight octagon in 45 cal. Here is a picture of the butt


Thanks
Paul

[rich pierce]

The Durs Egg by L&R is cursed and loved and is a nicely shaped lock for the period.   It might be longer than what you want.  It's a great looking lock and mine sparks well but is 30 years old.

Chambers Classic Ketland might be a good fit for this stock and it is a Chambers lock.  At 5" long and 15/16" deep, it may be perfect.

The small Siler is 4 and 3/4" x 7/8". 

[ptk1126]

Rich: Thanks for the recommendations. The Durs Egg and Classic Ketlands are possibilities. Do either have much bottom curve ?  I ordered the Bailes from Track's catalog and found it to have more curve than indicated in the picture.

Taylor: Unfortunately the ramrod is 3/8". I wanted a 5/16" but Fred jumped the gun and sent one with 3/8". He is a really nice guy and the wood was so nice, I didn't have the heart to return it.

I drilled a hole up from the center, bottom of the stock at about the line for the breechplug face. At that point the web is 5/64" thick and the bottom of the ramrod channel is 11/32" up from the bottom of the stock.

Thanks to all & hope to see some of you in Lexington on Friday.

Paul

[rich pierce]

You've got plenty of wood at the bottom of your stock, no worries.  Based on your measurements, the situation is not so dire and maybe the photo angle is not reflecting what you really have.  6/32" (3/16") beneath the ramrod hole gives have plenty of room to inlet the front extension of your guard and have wood left over.  That will trim up the underside nicely.  And 5/64" of web at the breech is as good as anyone could hope for. Nicely done.

When you do inlet the front extension of the guard, leave a ramrod in the hole to keep things firm in there.  Ask me how I know!

The Durs Egg has a gentle curve to the bottom of ther plate and I think the Late Ketland is straighter.

[California Kid]

Check that your lines are on the stock right. If you have 5/64" at the breech you might have 1/8" at the forward lock bolt. It looks from the picture that too much excess wood was sawn off further down the fore stock. Your ramrod lines look a little fat, even for a 3/8" ram rod hole.

[Long John]

Paul,

Don't ever be affraid to reshape the lock plate to suit your needs!  Once I started doing that it really improved my architecture.  I use almost exclusively Chambers locks but I haven't built a rifle without making some modifications to lock plate shape, hammer shape, etc. in several years now and I like what I am getting.

I think that the lock plate should loose a little of its curvature along the bottom edge so it flows with the overall shape of the lock panels and the stock better.  Also, I agree with the others that the web seems too thick and the ramrod to thick.  That will move your lock up a little on the stock blank and give you additional wood below the lock.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[T*O*F]

Since everyone else has already jumped to conclusions, I'm going to ask the obvious question. 

You said it's a Fred Miller precarve.  Did he already drill the ramrod hole?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I used Chamber's Late Ketland lock on a Jacob Kuntz rifle unaltered, but in retrospect I wish I'd done a little more shaping around the tail to exaggerate the tit.





This last one is the result of over a hundred rounds.  There is no fouling in the lock mortise and none in the barrel, save for the last shot.  These pics also demonstrate the "plum brown" referred to in another thread.  The lower shape of the plate was perfect for this Lehigh rifle.  In this case the web between barrel and rod hole is 5/32" and the rod hole is 5/16".  There is about 5/32" of wood below the rod hole.

[Dphariss]

If the shape worries you cut the pan off the plate and have it welded to a piece of .1 to .125" mild steel then use the old plate as a guide for the holes in the new plate. Then with all parts located file to the shape you need. Now you have the "perfect" lock plate. Trapping oneself with the "stock" plate is not necessary.
I just narrowed the tumbler in one these since they are pretty deep for a petite rifle or pistol. IIRC it was .625 from the face of the plate to the head of of the bridal screw. I really need to start measuring things and writing them down I guess...

Dan