rework a butt plate & trigger gaued

[Michigan Flinter]

  Has anyone ever taken a butt plate and or trigger gaurd and cut them into at the joint where they are brazed together if they were made at a forge then copper braze them back together ? If so what is the best way to do this? I know this isn't PC correct but some folks don't have a forge or knowledge to do it the old way. Thanks for your replys. Eric D. Lau Riverdale Mi.

[Acer Saccharum]

Eric, are you wanting to get rid of the brass braze and replace it with copper?

I think that's your question.

Since brass melts at a lower temp than copper, you'll need to use more heat to copper braze them. And a suitable flux that will stand the temps. I suspect you will want a forge, either coal, charcoal, or propane.

Tom

[Michigan Flinter]

  I guess I didn't make myself very clear the butt plate and trigger gaurd are cast steel and I would like to redo them to have a brazed joint be it copper or brass .Thanks for the interest. Eric D. Lau

[Bill of the 45th]

Eric, it can be done with just a propane, or mapp torch, and the parts held in a jig.  Ken Guy showed how in a post in the second page of shop made tools, on how he does his with a wire frame to hold the parts.  I would first drill a hole for the rivet before I cut the piece apart so you have good alignment. Biggest problem may be the thickness of the material, it will surely need more heat.  Otherwise, all you need is some copper wire, and twenty mule team.

Bill

[Nate McKenzie]

How about cheating a little more and just file a groove and fill it with copper or brass Rub 'n Buff cream- available in craft stores. Even model paints might work. Never tried it. Might look awful, but you could always complete sawing it and then braze it.

[Ken G]

Eric,
Here's a cast plate filed to look more like a forged one.  Notice where the comb plate meets the buttplate.  That rounded part is filed out till you have a sharp angle where they meet.  If you want to saw them apart and braze them back together you could but the real visual difference between cast and forged is where they meet in my opinion.  If you do everything right when you braze them together it will be a near perfect match and you have wasted your effort cutting them apart.  In my opinion.  I also think Bill is right and you will need a small Oxy/Mapp set up with the thickness of a cast plate. 
You can then add your rivet for looks.
Ken

P.S.  If you save the picture and open it on your computer it should be larger.  

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Ken, may I ask - what lock is that?

[Ken G]

Taylor,
It's the Caywood lock.  Externally it looks like the Davis Ketland lock except for the stamped "London Warranted"  The internals are completly different though.  They do not have it on thier website.  If I remember it was stamped CC&R.  R standing for Rowe.  he builds the locks for his guns but they do sell them.  You just have to call and ask.
Ken

[stuart cee dub]

Nate had a good idea .You could even take it a step further.
Take your jewelers saw, hopefully with some good blades and cut a thin deep line where you wish the brazing line to be .Under cut it at the,the curve of the butt plate will help you do this with a saw . Then flatten a wire either copper or brass and pound it into the groove.
Basically all you are doing is adapting a metal wire inlay technique to your butt plate.I haven't tried this myself on a butt plate but a similar technique works great on inlays near the breech on barrels.
Best of luck 
 

[Dphariss]

Eric, it can be done with just a propane, or mapp torch, and the parts held in a jig.  Ken Guy showed how in a post in the second page of shop made tools, on how he does his with a wire frame to hold the parts.  I would first drill a hole for the rivet before I cut the piece apart so you have good alignment. Biggest problem may be the thickness of the material, it will surely need more heat.  Otherwise, all you need is some copper wire, and twenty mule team.

Bill

Propane torch won't even hard silver solder something that big.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

Propane torch won't even hard silver solder something that big.

Dan

...and copper requires even more heat than silver solder......


..... and copper rivets will melt if you r doing a copper brazed joint. I believe you'd better use steel rivets.

You need a LOT of heat to get parts that big hot enough to get copper to flow.

Melts at 1984 F, and you might need 2000 to get it to flow. That is serious heat, no kiddin, something only a forge or big honkin oxy acet torch will do for ya.

[Ken G]

I use steel rivets for that reason. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

2000 F....what colour is that Tom? Yellow?

[Dphariss]

2000 F....what colour is that Tom? Yellow?

Brass takes a pretty high yellow to flow.

I found out the hard way about using steel to hold the parts together. I was a lot younger then
The screw I used did not look like brass, but it was.
Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

Taylor, I dunno, since I never did that copper solder before. I am going to guess high yellow. Sparkling yellow-white is welding heat.