Barn find - hoping for thoughts onmaker

[DaveM]

This, I was told, was found in a barn in Berks County. As you can see this was used hard for what seems like a century. The rear ramrod pipe used to be faceted and now it is hard to even tell.

Does anyone have any ideas on this one as to who made it and where? The rifle appears to have a subtle double radius at the butt and wrist. It has a full length 43-inch barrel bored smooth. The butt is about 2 inches wide at the rear of the cheek piece.

[120RIR]

Hard use indeed!  It doesn't look very Berks-ish to me but regardless, it has some early features.  I can't really tell from the photos but is that patchbox cavity hogged out all the way to the buttplate?  Without a signature, traces of a signature, or distinctive carving or other features, it would be pretty tough to attribute a specific maker. 

[bama]

What a great find. I have no clue to who made it but it is a great piece and I hope it goes to a good home where it can live out its retirement in comfort. 

[JTR]

The ball at the end of the side plate is sort of Bucks County, as is the ridge down the center of the trigger guard. And the low comb could be as well. But that's about all...
And like Jim says, Great Find!

[DaveM]

Hey thanks guys! I wondered if the wires on the cheek piece meant anything regionally also. Or maybe they did that everywhere? I think it may have remnants of a signature but I doubt any hope of making anything of it.

As for the patchbox cavity, there is no wood at the butt plate end. I attached a photo. There is a primitve release slide button on the butt plate. It used to have a short toe plate that was rectangular, with the same inside radii as on the patchbox finial but the end of the finial was just a circle unlike the patchbox finial.

Traces of a carved edge remain along the bottom of the butt and it extends up and along the underside of the wrist behind the trigger plate. In the one photo you can see that this line is not worn on the stock as it wraps beneath the wrist in front of the rear portion of the trigger guard. Maybe this line originally emphasized the separate radius for the underside of the butt from that of the undersde of the wrist. I don’t know if this was a regional thing either.

The wrist is 1-1/2 inch wide x 1-9/16 high.
Breech is a touch over an inch.
Pull is about 13-1/4
Buttplate is 4-5/8 high.
Ramrod pipes (upper) are about 1-7/16 long
The missing patchbox lid tapered from about 1.10 inch wide at the hinge to 1.30 inch at the butt plate.
Missing toe plate was about 1-3/4 long.

[DaveM]

JTR, your thought about Bucks County is very interesting! I looked at the Bucks rifles in RCA and the mortise for the original toe plate looks identical to the one on RCA # 65, except instead of being held by a screw it looks like it may have been held by three small nails in a triangular pattern.

[jdm]

To me it has the Eastern Pa. kind of vibe to it.   The but plate is  similar to the Northampton style as is the flare at the front of the trigger guard extension.   The patch box release is a feature found on a lot of rifles from that area ( Bucks , Berks Lehigh). I'm throwing this out there as a place to look. I could be waaaaay of the mark. I have been before.  Jim

[Eric Kettenburg]

Very interesting piece despite being plain.  I can see it a couple of ways.  It could be something of an earlier development of what you see later in Allentown or western NH county with more curvature and step.  The buttplate comb return is quite shallow, the box finial looks like it could conceivably be an emerging design that later morphed into the more typical form, the guard looks like the grip tab/return is shrinking.  OTOH, I can see how it has something of a Bucks feel also.  The sideplate can be viewed somewhat like a first step toward some later Bucks sideplates although it's fairly generic.  Rear sight is very Allentown area.  The longer cheek however is more Bucks.  I feel pretty sure it originated somewhere there in SW/SC NH county or the upper half of Bucks Co but there's really not enough to go on to attribute a specific maker.  I wouldn't put any stock in the box mortise running all the way to the buttplate with no wood web; I've seen that all over despite some folks believing it to be a southern thing.  The box release is also very common to this area but again, was used elsewhere also given the simplicity.

I kind of feel that the guard at least may have been shaped down from an earlier guard.

Any trace of a signature that you can read or highlight?

[DaveM]

Eric, thanks for your detective work and insights! I will study the barrel some more for hints of a signature.I also want to take the barrel off to look beneath for marks. I have not been able to get the tang screw loose, not sure it was ever removed in recent history.

I was able to unscrew the small wood screw holding the sideplate.
The smooth bore is about 59-or 60 cal past the slight flare.

The ramrod pipes seem to be made of sheet brass also. The upper ramrod pipe near the muzzle is flared (on a curve) toward the front. The barrel also has a slight internal flare at the muzzle. Bob L. Has been in touch with me - he pointed out sometimes Bucks Rifles had a shorter rear entry ramrod pipe, and this one does as well.  The forestock has a slightly triangular shape forward of the rear entry pipe.





free picture gallery

[DaveM]

Also here is a photo of the butt plate. Of course it is missing the lid. You can see the narrow mortise for the lid. Plate width is about 1-13/16, slightly slimmer than the butt width at the cheekpiece. Something that may be unusual is that in addition to the tang screw, the plate has two screws on the flat instead of one.