Barrel Tennons Visible in Ramrod Groove?

[silky]

Good afternoon,

Seems all the reference photos show the ramrod in place...

Was it common for the barrel tennon mortise to be cut through the web such that the tennon is visible with the ramrod removed?  Specifically, how about 1700's New England guns?  Would doing so be considered shoddy workmanship or simply pragmatic?

I could buy that on a high end gun that wouldn't be the case, but I feel that generally the juice of creating a wood-bottomed mortise wouldn't be worth the squeeze, especially considering the sliver of wood that would remain would be so very thin on a gun with a narrower web.

Thanks!

- Tom

[Daryl]

Not cut through.

[smallpatch]

To keep a slim profile, the web of wood must be very thin.  It’s almost impossible to NOT break through into the ramrod channel.

[Jim Kibler]

I think tennons cut through is pretty much universal on original work.

Jim

[Eric Kettenburg]

Most antiques are cut through as the web is quite thin and you won't see it anyway with the rammer in place.  This is for American work; Euro work may be different but I have not focused upon that stuff.

I like to think of them as being "drains" also if you're out in rain but honestly any water getting down to the underside of the barrel is likely being soaked up into the wood under the barrel before it gets to any open spot, and also with a well fitted barrel, it's not like there should be an open channel under there anyway.

[silky]

I think tennons cut through is pretty much universal on original work.

Jim

Not gonna lie... that's the answer I was hoping for!

Thanks, guys.

- Tom

[smart dog]

Hi,
The idea that barrel lugs shouldn't show in the ramrod groove is modern nonsense.  As others wrote, if you want a slim gun, the barrel lugs will show in the ramrod groove.

dave

[smylee grouch]

It might be possible that back in the day the gunstocker just didn't want to spend the extra time it would probably take to fit it with the lugs not showing.

[Aprock]

They show through on all three of my guns

[alacran]

Most antiques are cut through as the web is quite thin and you won't see it anyway with the rammer in place.  This is for American work; Euro work may be different but I have not focused upon that stuff.

I like to think of them as being "drains" also if you're out in rain but honestly any water getting down to the underside of the barrel is likely being soaked up into the wood under the barrel before it gets to any open spot, and also with a well fitted barrel, it's not like there should be an open channel under there anyway.

I don't care how well fitted a barrel is, water will get in. Hunt in the rain for a few days and the wood will quit absorbing water. your rammer better be thin in the ramrod hole or it may be a week of drying before you get it out.

[parve]

One of our members posted some good photos of the barrel channel of an original by J Graeff not too long ago: https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=76333.0
The barrel tennons are visible from the ramrod groove

[Bigmon]

I may be incorrect, but I always try my best to have them not come thru.   Just a challange I try and keep. Most aspects I am not so good at but at least this is something I can achieve.
  But I must confess I had not thought of the drain idea.  Must be a real down pour.  I think I will now have to drill drain holes in all my modern rifles now, if that's the case?
This sort of remind me of some friends I have that use matching wood screws for front lock bolts and wood screws in lue of tang bolts? I know they are far different matters, but all seems to be a question of workmanship?
To each his own I guess.

[Mike Brooks]

I have a new England fowling gun relic that uses all French fusil de trait parts except for the lock. It has lug slots that go all the way through.
 The web on old guns is far thinner than what most folks use today.

[Martin S.]

One of our members posted some good photos of the barrel channel of an original by J Graeff not too long ago: https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=76333.0
The barrel tennons are visible from the ramrod groove

That is a really cool post you linked to.  Thanks for that!

[Eric Kettenburg]

But I must confess I had not thought of the drain idea.  Must be a real down pour.  I think I will now have to drill drain holes in all my modern rifles now, if that's the case?

Most modern rifles are free floated so there is space under the majority of the barrel for water infiltration to escape, not to mention that most modern rifles leave at least half the barrel completely exposed even if a type with a forearm.  A full-stock longrifle is an entirely different animal.

[oldtravler61]

  When I first started gun building I thought having the barrel lugs showing through the ram rod channel was sloppy workmanship. Just like the screw heads not being aligned the same. Lucky for me someone whipped me alongside the head and made me see the light. But none the less I still try...