Author Topic: Here's an odd ball for you.  (Read 2287 times)

Offline Brent English

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Here's an odd ball for you.
« on: December 14, 2023, 05:38:22 AM »
I couldn't resist buying this odd muzzle loader several years ago.  Really home made.  Lock is stamped inside W. Ketland & Co.  With the two tulips on the outside, I'm sure somebody can date this part of it for me.  Some of the smaller inlays appear to be pewter that was cast into the inlet.  About .58 caliber and smooth bore.  Any thoughts or speculation on where this odd ball originated?  I'd almost guess Africa, but waiting for other inquisitive and opinionated others to chime in.  Thanks for looking. 






















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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2023, 05:07:16 PM »
Nothing there says African to me.
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Offline Elnathan

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2023, 07:37:40 PM »
Might depend on what you mean by "African." Doesn't look like it was made to an indigenous aesthetic and Afrikaaner-made guns are usually a lot more Dutch-influenced, but I suppose it could be a very rural/naive attempt at copying an English sporting arm with the parts  available.

Wood species would narrow things down a bit...
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Offline Brent English

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2023, 10:39:41 PM »
Can one of you lock specialists give an apr. date on the Ketland lock?  It is certainly older than the gun, but inquiring minds would like to know.  Thanks
Done right is better than done fast.

Offline 2 shots

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2023, 04:47:51 AM »
 looks like a tradegun lock to me

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2023, 12:34:13 AM »
Early style Ketland made with minimum of tools.Appears to have been a flintlock but no idea as to time made.
My guess is old American origin.the "checkering "has a character of its own maybe done with 3 cornered file.
This is NOT a junk gun But a needed tool to put meat in the kettle and roust a predator,animal or human.
Bob Roller
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 12:45:57 AM by Bob Roller »

Offline DaveM

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2023, 02:53:30 AM »
To me, the wood looks like maple, and I would agree with the thought of early Amercan made. Really neat gun!

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2023, 01:40:33 AM »
The lock dates after 1801/2 which is when William K went into business under his own name. Until then he'd been a partner in Ketland & Co. He died in 1803 but the business continued under his partner, William Allport. Most likely the lock dates from about 1805 or later. The tulips mean absolutely nothing. The lock was made in the B'ham trade by one of the many lock makers. It was sold by the WK firm...

It's the cheapest of export grade locks, without even an internal bridle. It probably didn't have an external bridle as well. Those locks sold for 17s a dozen.

Offline Feltwad

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2023, 02:51:51 AM »
That method of converting to percussion with the nipple into the wall of the barrel was common in Belgium I have come across several of these mostly muskets
Feltwad

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2023, 04:51:10 AM »
Thanks for the education on this one folks, especially that last one Feltwad. The conversion is what caught my eye.
Hold to the Wind

Offline Mattox Forge

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2023, 04:00:26 PM »
That conversion is similar to what was described by Blackmore in British Military Firearms 1650-1850 as the Eccles cap conversion. Yours does not seem to be angled like the Eccles method. I wonder if Eccles modified a Belgian method, or if they were independant ideas.

Interesting piece.
Mike

Offline bluenoser

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2023, 04:58:05 PM »
When doing a conversion such as fig. 1 and 3, was the housing for the nipple brazed to the barrel?

Offline Karl Kunkel

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Re: Here's an odd ball for you.
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2023, 04:57:47 AM »


Kunk