.36 vs. .32

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Is there much difference between a .36 and .32 caliber in terms of ballistics?

Would a .36 be too much gun for squirrels? 

I'm thinking of building a squirrel gun but didn't like my experience with a .32 and a 5/16" ramrod.  Perhaps a .36 would leave enough room to use a bore guide and prevent muzzle erosion.

[wvmtnman]

I can tell you from my personal hunting experience that there is not much difference in squirrel hunting with a .32 or a .36.  Actually, I prefer the .36.  No matter what caliber you are hunting with, you will want to make head shots.  Both will tear up a squirrel pretty bad when hit in the body.  (sort of like hitting one in the body with a hollow point .22 mag.)  Sometimes almost tearing them in half. Since head shots are what you will be wanting, this sort of opens up the .38 and .40 calibers.  ALso, with the .38 and .40, you will get a little more accuracy in windy conditions and a ball that is big enough to easily bring down a turkey.  The only draw back is a little more lead and powder, but not that much.
                                                                           Brian

[northmn]

I just ordered a barrel for another small game gun and went 40.  My experiences with the 32 were that it is a fun little caliber, but needs to be loaded up pretty hot to be accurate.  My dedicated squirrel rifle is a 25.  It shoots a #3 buckshot and is actually by ML nomenclature a 26.  15 grains of 4f powder behind a 24 grain roundball.  It still will do damage at small game ranges and really opened up a pine squirrel I shot length ways.  I have never owned a 36 and was considering one but went 40 as I already had all the stuff.  Lots of squirrels have been shot with a 36 as that was the standard when I started many years ago.  36 will stand up better in the wind at longer ranges   All the small calibers are cheap to shoot.   MY 32's liked about 25 grains of 3f, some folks are using more.  The 40 will do its job with about 45 grains of 3f but for real close range work on small stuff I have used about 35 grains which is in the ball park with the 36.  The 32 is about a 45 grain ball, the 36 a 65-70 and the 40 about a 90-95.  None break the bank.  If you buy the ball there is a dollar difference between 100 40's and 100 32's or 36's.  As has been stated the 36 or 40 may be used for better performance on larger stuff like coyotes or turkeys if you can.

DP

[hanshi]

I have both a .32 and a .36.  The .32 has taken a number of squirrels and I agree they are about the same as a .22LR Hollowpoint as far as destructiveness goes.  The .32 is a great caliber if squirrels & small varmints are the only target.  Must add that I've never had a problem with rods or fouling.  That being said, the .36 is my choice of the two.  The .36 will take much larger game at longer distances but head shots are recommended on bushytails.  Though you didn't mention it, the .40 is even better.  It will give you (where legal) squirrel to deer capability.

[Dancy]

Seems dangerous shooting a lead ball up in the air and not knowing what or who it's going to land on if you miss the squirrel. I have done it many times before in my youth, but as I get older I think about such more. My gut feeling is a 45 grain weight rb or less might not cause damage if it landed on a person from a high angle, does anyone have real data one way or the other? There are some places remote enough it's not an issue, but they are shrinking everyday.

James

[Long John]

James,

I hunt squirrel with my 36 caliber rifle.  I don't take a shot unless there is a substantial part of a tree behind the squirrel to catch the ball.  It just takes a little self-discipline.  Of course, my dog Ollie is at the base of the tree barking, causing the squirrel to scoot around to the opposite side of the tree, where I just happen to be standing.  Crack!  "Ollie, Fetch!"  "Good boy, Ollie!"


Best Regards,

John Cholin

[jbtusa]

Shooting a .40 caliber ball up into the air scares me because where does it go if you miss?  That's a  big chunk of lead flying out there to unknown regions and who knows what damage it'll cause if if hits someone or someone's cow? 

[SCLoyalist]

Seems dangerous shooting a lead ball up in the air and not knowing what or who it's going to land on if you miss the squirrel. I have done it many times before in my youth, but as I get older I think about such more. My gut feeling is a 45 grain weight rb or less might not cause damage if it landed on a person from a high angle, does anyone have real data one way or the other? There are some places remote enough it's not an issue, but they are shrinking everyday.

James

There's a ballistic rule of thumb called 'Journee's Rule' that says for a roundball, no matter what muzzle velocity it leaves the barrel or its angle of departure, its maximum range is going to be (in yards) 2200*ball diameter (in inches).   So for a .350RB, it's going to come down  within 770 yards of you (maybe a little more, depending on wind).

As to velocity and energy when it comes down,  if you shoot upwards at a steep angle at a squirrel, the ball will leave the muzzle with mostly vertical velocity, be slowed by both air drag and gravity.  At zero vertical velocity, it heads back down being accelerated by gravity and slowed by air drag.   When drag becomes equal to gravity forces, it continues to the ground at  its terminal velocity.  For a .350RB, that ought to be real close to 200fps.   A 64 gr, .350RB should impact the ground with less than 10 ft lbs of energy.    I have a ballistics program that matches the Lyman ballistics table pretty well.   It says for a .350RB fired at a 60 degree angle wrt the ground at 1500 fps MV, it will come down 1900 feet away at 200 fps velocity, 6 ft-lb energy.    

For a .40, the max distances and energy would be a bit more (impact 204 fps, 9 ft lb energy),  for .32 less (impact at 180 fps, 3ft-lb).

SCL

[northmn]

About the only way you can avoid the worry of a ball or bullet coming down like you described is to use a shotgun.  While I have  heard of damages done by highpowers I ahve heard or read very little of small game guns.  My 25 is unlikely to do much harm as even a 200 fps it would bounce off of most things and might at most crack a window.  When possible I do like to line things up such that a miss will hit something solid behind it.  In heavily populated areas shot may have to be taken with more care.  There have been a few 25 users on this site that like them.  I am one and what you mentioned is one reason.  Rayel does make other calibers including I believe a 28 and a 30 so there are other small bore options.  I rarely see anything over a rabbit, squirrel or grouse while hunting that would require more and I am not sure a well placed 25 might not work on a coyote up close.  You may just have to track it a ways.  The 25 does a little more damage than a hp longrifle.

DP

[Robby]

SCL, That was very interesting, Thank You!
Robby

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

So for those that shoot a .40, that would be a 95 grain ball right?

You don't necessarily worry about shooting squirrels up in the air?

I would imagine that a .32 or .36 ball coming down would not be any worse than a small hailstone.  But lead is more dense than ice so I don't know how big a 95 grain hailstone would be.  Marble sized maybe?

[wvmtnman]

As long as proper shots are taken, with the the ball flying into a tree or dirt, I would not worry about the ball dropping onto someones head.  The theory is no different than hunting squirrels with a .22, you need to be very considerate to others in the woods when pulling the trigger.
  A friend of mine hunts squirrel with a .54.  He has a picture of 6 squirrels he killed one day.  Three are missing the head and the other three do not have a mark on them (he barked them).  I guess if I were looking  to only own limited rifles, I would pick a .40. The .40 is good for target shooting and small game hunting. Many deer have been taken with a .40 but I would not do it.  Here in WV the min caliber for deer is .38.  (On the other hand if I wanted four rifles I would have a percussion .36, a flint .40, a cap 50 and a flint 54)   Now, deciding which barrel to pick..............................
                                                                           Brian

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The .40 is tempting because it is legal for deer here in Wisconsin.  I already have a .54 but sometimes it's nice to have an "extra" muzzle loader in case I invite a brother or friend to hunt. 

Wisconsin has squirrels, but not so many.  I don't think I'd care to limit myself to only shooting when they are against a trunk. 

[Dancy]

SCL,

thanks for the info.

So in practical terms, would 200 fps be about like a modern slingshot?

Think about that popping ya in the head with a 40 cal. at point blank range! I've seen guys kill pheasants with slingshots and get pass throughs.

Not trying to highjack the thread, just something to consider when talking squirrel calibers, depending on location and method.

I think I would like to try a 25 myself, sounds fun!

James

[Daryl]

Always a backstop for the ball.  If you adhere to that rule, you can use anything - as i have- at least up to a .69. It kills them if you hit them right.

A .36 will clean the head off a snowshoe rabbit as if done with a machete.  I stay away from areas or parts I want to eat - pretty simple.

You want to see feathers? Shoot a grouse in a tree with a .32, taking a shot up the bum out the heat.  Nothing but feathers and a messy book shaped piece of bloody meat.

Head shots with a back stop - simple rules.

[hanshi]

Shooting up into the air with anything poses risk.  As a kid with a .22 RF I knew better than to shoot unless there was something I could see behind the target to catch the bullet.  I'm sure a mistake was made from time to time but safety was something I was ingrained with.  I assumed everyone was as conscious of the dangers as was I.  Needless to say I was a little shocked to find that wasn't always the case.  I pass up squirrels that I can't backstop by maneuvering around the tree.  In the woods there is usually a tree or limb to line up behind one's target.  If not, just pass it up; there will be other opportunities.

With all due respect to SCLoyalist and others, a fired projectile must be fired absolutely, perfectly vertical (impossible in the real world) in order for it to conform to the principles of a simple, dropped object.  When fired at any angle even a round ball behaves with ballistic energy.  This means the energy and danger is greater than if it were dropped from the same height.  This is the reason group aerial  firing, as in celebration, sometimes result in deaths.  I know of one individual who was struck by a rifle bullet that came downward and ranged the LENGTH of his body.  In other words, a very steep angle but not quite vertical.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Shooting up into the air with anything poses risk.

Well so much for dove, duck, goose, & grouse hunting.

Frankly, if you really think the hazard of a falling bullet is going to be serious you should probably wait until the squirrel is on the ground.  A 3 to 4 inch diameter tree limb makes for a lousy backstop - one twig and the ball hits neither squirrel nor limb.

[SCLoyalist]

The equations of motion that govern a bullet trajectory are the same regardless of conical vs roundball, muzzle angle,  muzzle velocity, etc.    Roundballs, having a lower mass to cross-sectional-area-in-direction-of-travel than a conical bullet, are going to get slowed down quicker than a conical.

Shoot a conical bullet into the air, and gravity will affect it exactly as if it were a roundball, but air drag won't slow it down as much because the conical has more mass behind its cross-sectional area and mass tends to keep objects moving along. 

The moral to the story is probably two-fold:
It's better to get hit with a falling roundball shot from a high muzzle angle than to get hit with a spitzer fired at the same angle,   and
No matter which, the guy who gets hit is going to be some kinda of annoyed.

[Dancy]

......unless he is dead.