Question on adjustable strap (Hunting Pouch)

[eagle24]

What is the most appropriate adjustment type for a strap on a southern hunting pouch?

[Cory Joe Stewart]

There is a pouch on Display at Guilford Courthouse museum in Greensboro NC that has a pouch with a buckle on it.  If I remember correctly (it has been a while) it was a plain rectangular buckle.  I do recall that it was on the left side of the pouch very close to the pouch itself.  I am not sure it it was on there originally though, the strap looks like an old belt and it black and the pouch is light deerskin.  I may hve a picture somewhere if I can find it.  I made a replica of it once with an iron buckle.

Coryjoe

[eagle24]

I have seen contemporary southern pouches with buckles on the strap.  I have one myself in fact.  Would a button on the back of the bag for one side of the strap also be correct?  or would a strap that had adjustment holes and tied with leather lace be correct?  Just wondering what options I have for the strap adjustment.

[Ky-Flinter]

Greg,

Take a look at the shot pouch in this post....
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=7888.0

-Ron

[Pete G.]

I believe that there are two different schools of thought when you speak of "Southern Pouches".
1.The Tidewater Planter, which would tend to be a professionally made English style, and would probably use a brass buckle similar to a harness buckle.
2. The backwoods homespun style, which is usually strictly utilitarian. Might have an iron buckle, a button of some sort, or perhaps laced on with a rawhide wang, whatever was available at the time, might even have a couple of holes punched with a small stick threaded between the two, but in any case, nothing fancy.

[Randy Hedden]

I would have to believe that a homemade pouch wouldn't even have a provision for adjustment.  Pouch makers today use buckles, buttons, etc. so the pouches will adjust to any buyer of the pouch.

Randy Hedden

[Jefferson58]

I think Randy has a good point about a lot of pouches not even having a buckle. I have one original Virginia pouch that has been displayed here, and it has a laced adjustment between the front and back sections of the strap at the top of the shoulder.

I have examined a fair number of original Virginia and Southern Appalachian pouches that did have buckles however. I suspect most were mid to late 1800's pieces, but they mostly exhibit some type of buckle system. One point to consider is that they always seem to have a strap that is no more than 1" wide at the most. Some are thinner.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[James Rogers]

I agree that many did not have buckles, especially on those bags created at home unless incorporating an old piece of belt or harness into the design. I also think it's important to distinguish between home cobbled and store boughten when evaluating as PeteG said.   
For 18th century at least, I suspect brass buckles to be predominant even in the back country. All kinds of brass implements even made it past the back country to the natives.
Any iron buckles would most likely be fine work and more expensive than brass. I don't think you would commonly see the steel buckles with rough forge marks like we see on so many contemporary pieces today. 

[WElliott]

Over the years, I have owned probably three dozen Southern bags.  Some were obviously home made, some were shop made.  Most I have owned were probably mid or even late 19th century, but some I believe to be early 19th century or even late 18th century.  If there was a provision for adjustment of the strap, the overwhelming choice was an iron buckle.  Some buckles were crude and home made, a few were finely made and one or two even had a roller. 

I just looked at the eight bags I still have which I believe are Southern.  Five have iron buckles and three have no  provision for adjustment of the strap.  That is not, of course, a representative sample as over the years I probably have held on to those I found most pleasing.  Shapes and sizes range all over the place.  Straps range from less than 1/2" wide to over 2 1/2" wide. 

When considering what is "appropriate" for a Southern bag, whether adjustment device, size and material for the strap, bag material, shape or size, I'd just observe that the old boys made them from whatever they had handy and did whatever pleased them.  The bags were as individualistic as the owners.

Wayne

[James Rogers]

Wayne I think you nailed it pretty well in your last sentence. We have a tendency to want to create "schools" of construction in a sea of individuality.
We who re-create these things also have differing levels of just how much speculation and assumption  to use when considering a certain time frame.
Examples are really scarce the earlier you try to go.

[eagle24]

Wayne,
I'm glad you chimed in on this thread and I appreciate the information.  It sounds like there are several options that would not be out of the realm of possibility.  I have not had the opportunity to see many original southern bags.

[Randy Hedden]

G. Hall,

I started a thread on buckles back in July that went on for three pages.  You might want to go take a look at that thread?

Randy Hedden

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=5860.0

[eagle24]

Randy,

Thanks.  Don't know how I missed that thread when I searched.  Interesting that most in the thread you started seem to believe the use of forged iron buckles was either uncommon or non existent.  See Wayne's reply above, he believes the use of iron buckles was most common in southern pouches.  Now one difference (maybe) is that I am on the same page as Wayne and my thinking is more of mid 19th century (later) southern bags.  Anyway, it appears to me that it might be difficult to prove several strap adjustment types as incorrect on a later southern bag.

[WElliott]

Friends, as I said in my post, above, I don't claim that the bags currently in my collection are a representative sample of original Southern bags.  They are, after all, simply the ones I chose to keep out of the dozens I have owned over many years.  The Southern bags I have seen over the years have either had an iron buckle or no buckle.  It may well be that 18th century bags had brass buckles.  And no doubt brass buckles were used on some Southern bags in the 19th century as well.  Maybe I have just not been exposed to a representative sample.  These resourceful people used whatever was available to them. Whether from harnesses, shoes, etc. For what it is worth, I will post some snapshots I just took of buckles from several original bags. As you will see, the variety is great and the quality varies.

Wayne

[G. Elsenbeck]

Wayne, good pics and thanks a bunch for sharing.
Gary

[mill creek trading]

Gary Thanks for bringing up this subject. I agree with the comments about locally produced bags being made with what they had on hand. The originals that I have examined have ranged from iron, brass and no buckles to leather thong adjustments. The most common bags that I have seen were homemade and usually had a fixed strap.  Dennis

[eagle24]

Wayne,
Thanks for sharing the photos.  From the looks of those buckles, it does appear that they used whatever they had on hand, which makes good sense. 

[Artificer]

Wayne,

Thank you for sharing the photographs of the buckles and pouches.

[Kermit]

Which brings up a question I've had rattling around for years: Has anyone ever seen a bag strap using a repurposed SHOE buckle? Such buckles show up in site digs, sans shoe. Seems a logical reuse to me, but is PURE speculation.