Wood hardness again?

[redheart]

If a stock blank flunks the thumbnail test is it only good for the fireplace? Where do you draw the line?

[Martin S.]

The thumbnail test differentiates between hard and soft maple, without using a hand lens to observe the end grain structure.

However, I don't know if hard or soft maple is better for carving.  If anyone can share that information, it would be helpful.

By "flunks the thumbnail test" do you mean if you can mark it with a thumbnail, it is too soft? And soft maple should be avoided?

IIRC, cherry is about the same hardness as soft maple.

Cherry and soft maple are 950 on the Janka scale.

Hard maple is 1450.

Walnut is 1010.

Source:

https://www.bellforestproducts.com/info/janka-hardness/

[Blacksmoke]

The thumb test is a good test! wood for carving needs to be HARD!  If wood fibers do not resist the blade of your chisel or carving knife the fibers will bend instead of cut and your attempt at carving will fail!  I recently had a stock from Kibler to carve from a fiend,  It was like Balsa wood it could not be carved! So I did silver wire inlay instead.  That worked.  Hugh Toenjes

[Clowdis]

Soft wood can still be used for stocks, just not as desirable for carving and inletting. I've seen some really nice figure in soft maple that would have been a shame not to use. You just have to know the limitations.

[Elnathan]

I recently had a stock from Kibler to carve from a fiend,  It was like Balsa wood it could not be carved! So I did silver wire inlay instead.  That worked.

I always advise against accepting stocking jobs from demons. There is always a catch...

Having said that, I note that I've got reasonably strong thumbs and nails, and I've found I can usually mark a piece of wood if I try - the only exception might be cumaru, (which for entirely different reasons doesn't carve very well, as an aside). It is a matter of how much the thumbnail marks, rather than if it can mark at all.

[homerifle]

I recently had a stock from Kibler to carve from a fiend,  It was like Balsa wood it could not be carved! So I did silver wire inlay instead.  That worked.

I always advise against accepting stocking jobs from demons. There is always a catch...

Having said that, I note that I've got reasonably strong thumbs and nails, and I've found I can usually mark a piece of wood if I try - the only exception might be cumaru, (which for entirely different reasons doesn't carve very well, as an aside). It is a matter of how much the thumbnail marks, rather than if it can mark at all.

That is so funny!

[Mike Brooks]

I have carved a lot of soft wood in my day. Sharp tools and limiting the design to what is possible will help achieve success.
I prefer hard wood, but it's not the end of the world if you have to carve soft wood. I just carved a real soft one that I'll have finished soon.

[redheart]

I have carved a lot of soft wood in my day. Sharp tools and limiting the design to what is possible will help achieve success.
I prefer hard wood, but it's not the end of the world if you have to carve soft wood. I just carved a real soft one that I'll have finished soon.

Thanks Mike,
I'm not worried about fancy carving. It's going to get hard use on horseback,  I don't want it to break at the wrist the first time I drop it or if I just look at it wrong and I don't want the tang to knock out chips from setback when I shoot it. 

[Jim Kibler]

The thumb test is a good test! wood for carving needs to be HARD!  If wood fibers do not resist the blade of your chisel or carving knife the fibers will bend instead of cut and your attempt at carving will fail!  I recently had a stock from Kibler to carve from a fiend,  It was like Balsa wood it could not be carved! So I did silver wire inlay instead.  That worked.  Hugh Toenjes

“It could not be carved”. That’s a bold statement.  Bet I could have carved it just fine.  Perhaps I should find the softest piece of wood I can and do a video of me carving it.

I held the position for years that softer wood can be carved fine with the right technique and skill.  Would I prefer harder wood to carve?  Of course, but not all wood is ideal.

[Jim Kibler]

I don’t have much for fingernails, but I’ve always preferred to judge hardness by stock / blank weight and how cold it is to the touch.

[Dave B]

The late Freddie Harison shared a story about a guy that he had come to his place looking for a hard maple stock. He kept biting the wood to test it. Irritated, Freddie said this is all  sugar maple in this section, its all hard wood. I test it by urinating on it......he didnt bite any more stocks.

[Mike Brooks]

 

[redheart]

Don't certain finishes harden the wood to a degree?

[Mike Brooks]

Not in my experience.

[Daryl]

Years ago, there were some thin epoxies that were designed for hardening punky wood, as in boat transoms.

[Hungry Horse]

 It soft wood couldn’t be used for gun stocks the Japanese couldn’t have fought WWII.

Hungry Horse

[redheart]

Years ago, there were some thin epoxies that were designed for hardening punky wood, as in boat transoms.

That's true Daryl, it seems I've heard of something like that and also something that maybe was some kind of thin Super Glue (Cyanoacrylate).
I think I'll try it on the parts of this soft stock to re-enforce the areas that would be compressed by recoil and drench the wrist area with it after staining it first of course.

[redheart]

It soft wood couldn’t be used for gun stocks the Japanese couldn’t have fought WWII.

Hungry Horse

You're correct of course HH. I don't think I ever saw a Type 99 that appeared to have broken from recoil. They seem to be pretty well engineered to take that recoil by using a recoil bolt lug and the tang extended through the wrist area with multiple internal bushings,

[David Rase]

I prefer the toenail test over the thumbnail test.  The huger the toenail the better.
David

[Daryl]

Oh MAN - I've got one due to be removed on the 7th this month.  Had the one on my right big toe removed a month ago. Up until then
I was a tree climber. 

[Austin]

Lol David!

[alacran]

I guess none of you have heard of Accraglass and other epoxy products.

[Mike Brooks]

I prefer the toenail test over the thumbnail test.  The huger the toenail the better.
David