Long Barrel Construction Question

[Bob Gerard]

I have a .69 fowler that has a 52" barrel.  My question is if these long barrels were/are sometimes made by welding/forging several sections together?
I bought a long bore scope and had a look down this barrel. It has some long smooth areas and there are two distinct areas where the metal is not smooth at all and looks almost pitted. I am wondering if these are where sections were welded together (or what ever method was used). The barrel had no touch hole when I received it, so it was never fired, so I can eliminate the possibility of corrosion from poor maintenance.
There is also a distinct rim on the inside of the barrel, about 3” forward of the touch hole. I have no idea want it is from other than perhaps two barrel sections fit together and that was the overlap? The area behind the rim is slightly smaller in diameter than forward the rim.
This is somehow fascinating to me.
I have attached some photos from the bore scope.
(You may notice two small protrusions in the third photo- the original builder used barrel tenon staples that went through the wall.)
The first photo is near the muzzle and they progress so the last is of the breech plug. (I inserted a wire into the touch hole so you can see where it is in the last two photos.)
I have shot the gun many times and it shot well with both shot and roundball.
Thanks for any thoughts!

[rich pierce]

Barrel sections have been jump welded in the past. I’ve read the French did this on some trade gun barrels. No telling what was done to this barrel during its manufacture. Some barrel makers have made 2-piece long barrels screwed together. This is also often done to “stretch” an original barrel on a valuable antique.

If it was mine I’d ream it with an adjustable reamer until  the bore is uniform and glassy smooth end to end.

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
Welding barrels in sections was one of the secrets of 17th and 18th century Spanish barrels.  They made them in 5 sections, 2 octagon and 3 round.  The welding in each short section was thoroughly inspected more easily than if it was a full length barrel.  Then they welded the sections together and only needed to inspect the joints on the completed barrel. That gave them great confidence in their welding such that they were able to make the barrels light and thinner walled.

dave

[Bob Gerard]

Thanks Rich and Dave- good information from you gentlemen as always!
I could only assume that this was how the barrel was made, my guess was that the more rough interior areas are where the sections were welded?
I love discovering these things with the actual thing in hand and knowing more about how it was made. The cleverness of folks back then is easily overlooked.
Rich- I had read somewhere in an earlier thread of you mentioning an adjustable reamer. If I had one and knew how to use it I would take up your idea and work on this barrel. But alas, I am woefully ill equipped for any such operation.

[smylee grouch]

Interesting info. I had read that the Spanish  had made barrels in sections but never knew why.

[rich pierce]

Bob, I successfully used an adjustable reamer to restore several original smoothbore barrels to bright clean uniform bores using a shade tree setup. I got a long piece of square mild steel tubing that fit the square end of the reamer from a friend along with a handle with a square hole in the center that would turn the reamer by hand. I mounted the barrel in a bench vise parallel to my bench and mounted a board about 6” from the barrel breech in a second vise. I ran a tight fitting rod through the barrel to strike the board and drilled a hole at the mark for the square tubing to rotate in. This assured adequate alignment. Then it’s just oil, turn while slowly manually advancing the reamer, wipe out the scrapings, adjust the reamer ever so slightly larger, oil, and repeat.
I’ve got a middle sized reamer somewhere in the shop. The big one does about 12 gauge.

[Levy]

Having worked on 1622, 1715 and 1733 Spanish Plate Fleet wrecks, I have seen quite a few matchlock barrels that were made up in sections.  I've also seen a number of large anchors that were made in sections, hence the term "weak as a Spanish anchor".  The last 3 Carolina gun barrels that I worked on had a breech section 5" to 6" that was welded on (right about where the large brass sight would go).  The breech section was obviously a better quality and denser wrought iron than the rest, which was loose and stringy from the weld to the muzzle.  I also saw two I. Clarkson pistols  from 1733  that once the barrel tube was constructed, it was reduced in diameter at the breech and a strap of metal was welded around the reduced area (hope that makes sense).  Repair method or construction method, I don't know.  When you are working on shipwreck iron, the corrosion makes the welds obvious.  Have a Great Easter.  James "Sparkleberry Jim" Levy

[Bob Gerard]

Rich- your skills are rather amazing 🤩

[rich pierce]

Rich- your skills are rather amazing 🤩

Key strategy is to try lots of things and don’t talk about the failures much.

[David R. Pennington]

I know on my first involvement with forge welding a gun barrel, we started with two 36” pieces of buggy tire (the best quality iron we had). We forge welded the two pieces together road side to road side to get a big enough skelp. This was really nice iron and ‘wanted’ to be welded. As it proceeded it grew in length to over 5 feet. We eventually decided to cut it off to make a more workable section to bore and rifle. I hope we can resume the project soon to see it completed. (Stalled out due to life getting in the way.)

[Ky-Flinter]

Interesting topic and good information.  I have an antique O/R smoothbore barrel that is 50+ inches long.  The only markings on it are "A. Lenox" on the top flat.  The muzzle is about 16 gauge but in the area of the wedding band, the bore becomes smaller.  A slightly smaller jag and patch will reach the breech.  I guess I need to get me one of those colonoscopy cameras to inspect the inside of this barrel.

Ron

[Daryl]

Perhaps this barrel is one of the "smaller in the middle than either end" barrels, Forsyth spoke on in 1860, Ron.

[Bob Gerard]

That's what I was wondering as well, though there seems no swelling inside the fore-barrel, only at the breach.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

In your third image, you can easily see the impressions of the punch that installed the barrel staple.  If you ream the barrel, you will likely create perforations at that site, or at least such a thin spot that barrel integrity would be in question.  And I cannot say I have ever seen a rougher barrel as far as machine marks goes.

[Bob Gerard]

I won’t ream out this barrel; it works fine for me and it’s probably best to leave it alone, I think.
I wonder if perhaps the barrel was hand bored? It sure doesn’t look like it was done in a factory to me!

[Hungry Horse]

Rich Pierce, do you think a properly sized adjustable reamer would work to remove the choked area of a modern made 12 guage muzzleloading barrel? The choke seams to be choked in the four inches preceding the muzzle.

Hungry Horse

[Pukka Bundook]

Hungry Horse,.
I am not Rich P. But  have used identical adjustable reamers for reducing or removing choke.
A square fine boring bit is best for cleaning up afterwards, but the reamer removes most of it.

[rich pierce]

Hungry Horse,.
I am not Rich P. But  have used identical adjustable reamers for reducing or removing choke.
A square fine boring bit is best for cleaning up afterwards, but the reamer removes most of it.

Yep! I think it would be more challenging than a clean up of cylinder bore pitting because the body of the reamer would be less well supported leading into the choke. But starting with it adjusted to passing through, then the tiniest expansion with each pass, would be my approach. Lots of oil. If it’s a modern barrel of 4140 it’s going to be a chore.

[Pukka Bundook]

Rich,
For chokes, I just use a short T handle on the reamer and do as you suggest, a slide in fit, then tiny adjustments.

[rich pierce]

Rich,
For chokes, I just use a short T handle on the reamer and do as you suggest, a slide in fit, then tiny adjustments.

That sounds just right. So much experience here among our tribe at ALR; covers about every situation.

[Daryl]

I used to have a 12 bore adjustable reamer. I used it to open up a couple 12 bore chokes. I think Taylor used it to re-bore the barrels on his 12 bore flinter.
WOW- that was a while ago.