Die sinker chisels

[marziale00]

Is there a source for die sinker chisels.

Brownells has some, but only ogelettes and flat.  Looking for a 90 degree and a 120 degree.  Can find them in smaller gravers but really looking for somewhat bigger, hammer driven chisels.

I know alot of people make their own, but I am trying to avoid this.

[Acer Saccharum]

Gesswein is a source. I believe Grobet may have them as well. The gesswein site is really slow and they don't have good pictures of all the chisels, but I have bought mine from there.

http://www.gesswein.com/catalog/home.cfm?CFID=940277&CFTOKEN=21166757

http://www.grobetusa.com/

Maybe Otto Frei or Rio Grande:

http://www.ottofrei.com/store/home.php

http://www.riogrande.com/

As an alternative, get a 3/16 square lathe bit and set it into an aluminum handle. These are cheap, easy to get, and the steel in the tool bits is of high quality, as good as the die sinkers..

[rsells]

I got my last ones from Brownells.
                                                    Roger Sells

[Birddog6]

I bought a set of new Gesswein die sinker chisels from J. Huddleston  4-5 mo ago that he had extra. I have to say they are simply outstanding tools. And the best part is Jerry sharpened them for me before he sent them & man, they cut metal like it is butter.

I find that I use 3 of them the most & there are about 4-5 I have not used at all. However that is not the chisels fault, it it the fault of the unskilled owner that don't know what to do with the other chisels !  

[marziale00]

What is in the gesswien set. Brownells has it, but contents aren't clear

Is there a square or just flats, rounds and ogelettes ?

Which are you using the most ?

[David Rase]

I just bought the smallest sizes Brownells sells and ground them myself to the desired shapes.
DMR

[Birddog6]

What is in the gesswien set. Brownells has it, but contents aren't clear

Is there a square or just flats, rounds and ogelettes ?

Which are you using the most ?

I call it a set.  Bunch of dif. types. Someplace I saw them on-line that specified what each one is by number. I will try to find the it.   What I have is a # 1 (Jerry made it)  then in the Gesswien  #2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12. I use the # 9,10,11,12 the most. Those 4 will do 90% of my engraving, keeping in mind I am not a good engraver, but more of a heavy handed tool beater !  ha ha !    Thus these work well as they can withstand the abuse.   

[KY Shinner]

I am just getting started with engraving.  Has anyone used Falcon Tool?

www.falcontool.com.

They seem to be located in Cleveland, OH

They have square die sinkers chisels (HSS).  I noticed that Birddog6 uses mostly 9.10,11,12...is this a consenses?  I know this is probably subjective is to what you are engraving but I am looking for a start.  Any help would be appreciated.

[California Kid]

I get the lathe tool blanks and mount them in an aluminum handle with a set screw.You can grind any shape you want and they are cheap. Get the HSS as they are more forgiving of grinding errors.
Acer is right. I have die sinkers chisels as well and use my home made tools more often.

[Acer Saccharum]

My favorite die sinker is an onglotte. The flats are pretty useless for engraving Kentuckies.

A square graver would be handy, but the die sinkers are for serious metal removal. Not for Kentucky style engraving.


The die sinkers are good for paring off lots of steel, peel by peel, like a milling machine would if you had one. Unless you are carving out your own lock from barstock, these will have little use in the longrifle build.

The finest steel tool bits are the 'Glensteel' 3/32 square bits from GRS. They are perfect for making your own chisels for lighter engraving/chiseling.
http://www.grstools.com/gravers-burs-and-more/glensteel/glensteel-v-point-gravers.html
These are pricey, but they hold an edge, and cut, and cut, and cut.

[California Kid]

I use the die sinkers chisel to take out the excess material out of dove tails, but not for much else on a Kentucky. Did grind thin, a flat for doing a nick and dot border once, but its easier to make one from a tool bit. I've been wanting to try the Glensteel bits, but are pricey compared to lathe tool bits. They used to make them longer than they do now. I have a conventional onglette graver, but don't use it much. I think Meek used these a lot. Do you like the onglette better than the square, if so why? Shading maybe?

[JTR]

If you’re just learning to engrave, for a Kentucky rifle, a simple square graver will be all you need for 95% of the work. If you want to do some chicken tracks for a border, then get a small flat as well.

Whether you’re going to push the tool or use a hammer doesn’t make much difference, other than maybe the angle of the heel. Although a die sinker might seem to be a stouter tool, it’s still the point that does the cutting, and doesn’t matter if the shank of the tool is 1/8” in diameter or 1” in diameter as far as the longevity of the point is concerned. If you plan on smacking the die sinker with a big ol ball peen hammer to get the metal out of there in a hurry or cut the design quickly, you’ll be disappointed. Lots of taps with a small light hammer is what it takes.

Also, using a crumby tool of poor quality steel, or incorrect point geometry will be an exercise in futility.

I can understand the satisfaction of making your own tool that some guys enjoy, but if you’re just learning, buy a high quality graver! After all, if you can afford $250 for a barrel, $125 for a lock, another couple hundred for the wood, surely you can afford 15 bucks for a graver that will last for many years with proper use and care!

For the guys learning to engrave, study and learn to grind the point correctly!!! A poorly shaped point, whether you’re pushing the tool or hammering, will sour your learning experience quicker than a heartbeat.

Just my 2 bits,
John   

[David Rase]

I believe that the die sinkers chisels are perfect for colonial rifle engraving.  I think that most engraving was set in fairly deep.  The reason I believe this is that the yellow brass is soft and if the engraving was not deep it would of worn away from all the years of handling.
DMR

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have four die sinker's chisels that came from Brownell's in the mid 70's, and they are ground down now to a nubbin.  I used them to do all the engraving on all my guns up until now.  I recently invested in some Glensteel graver bits from GRS and Acer showed me how to sharpen them correctly.  I cannot believe the difference in the ease of cutting with the new gravers!  My technique is the same as it was with the chisels, but the points don't dull and break like they used to on my die sinkers chisels.  I ground a wriggle engraver from a 1/4" chain saw file section.  I use my flat die sinker for removing the ground when I inlay a barrel name plate, and I like it a lot.

[KY Shinner]

Thanks guys!  I appreciate your input.  I just came up from downstairs...I was practicing.  The way I figure, if I practice enough engraving to fill a basketball gyms floor, I might get pretty good at it.  I just was trying out my new engraving stand that I built.  I got the idea from you guys.   I have a long way to go.

Ed

[Don Getz]

Something else to think about.   I don' care how many or what kind of engravers you own, If you don't have enough artistic ability to lay out you engraving pattern well, or even be able to copy from an old gun.....hey, many people can't
even do that, it will be case of futility.    I recall a conversation with Monte Mandarino about his carving.   He told me the
most difficult part of doing his great carving was drawing it onto the stock,   he might spend days on it before he touched
a chisel to it...................Don

[LRB]

  I'm with JTR, and John Getz. A 3/32" square graver and a very light hammer, using a lot of light taps. Practice drawing. A lot! And learn to properly sharpen the graver. My main graver is set in a handle of hard maple. My hammer weighs just a few ounces. Here are nearly all my tools. I think my hammer weighs maybe 3 1/2" oz. total weight.