British engraving

[flatsguide]

I’d like to start the Engraving on a kit I bought from Jim Chambers. The butt plate tang is a good as any place to start. This is a photo of the tang prior polishing. Does anyone have a picture or pictures of original engraving on this tang pattern?  I have a number of British books on early makers but no photos of this particular tang. Circa 1750-1775 it’d guess.

[Jerry]

Draw in your own design, start with a two line border. A heavy one and a lighter one.

[Jerry]

Another example.

[smylee grouch]

If that is a copy of the Turvey rifle the RCA vol 1 I think might have a photo of the engraving  the butt.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Flats:  buy a copy of Jim Schippers" book on engraving.  I cannot remember if it has photos of this exact butt plate, but it has lots of pictures of this type of plate and you can easily use his design elements to make your own.

Here's some engraving shamelessly taken directly from his text...double left click on the pictures to enlarge them to full screen size.

 

[smart dog]

Hi Richard,
I'll throw my hat into your ring.  The Chamber's kit is not a copy of the Turvey rifle in RCA 1.  If I remember correctly, it was developed from a contemporary gun by Bob Harn based somewhat on the Turvey.  I have never seen a butt plate exactly like it on any British guns although it somewhat mimics the Turvey.  It is a tough nut to crack because you can clearly see the outline must directly integrate with the engraving because it will form the outer edges of the object.  If you have a copy of RCA 1 and look at the engraving on the original butt plate you will see it is very Germanic in influence.  The engraving around the butt plate tang screw, which is not on your plate, it is German strap work.  I am going to make the radical suggestion that you abandon English work and look to designs on Germanic jaeger rifles for inspiration.  British gunmakers often copied German designs very closely when they made rifles.   

dave 

[P.W.Berkuta]

BEAUTIFUL work Taylor

[flatsguide]

Taylor, I have Schippers book. He definitely has his unique style. Also it is in my opinion much more informative than Meek’s book for beginner engravers (me). Also as you mentioned, the borders of the tang are much more intricate than later butt plate tangs. IRT German engraving, if one likes oak leaves and acorns
you are good to go ,most of it is to heavy for me though. But, I will visit some German work as you suggested and try to look at it with fresh eyes.
Thanks to all for their ideas
Cheers Richard

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Schipper's book is excellent for the study of borders, and this butt plate (Chambers') has lots and lots of room for borders.  Thanks to those who commented on my scratching.

[davec2]

Richard,

I built one of these back in 2015 with the same butt plate and you were a participant in the subsequent discussions.   https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=34719.0

As noted by Smart Dog, I discovered on my own that this particular butt plate was a bit of a pain insofar as the exterior contour really dictates how the engraving design needs to go.  In my own comments in the post from 2015 I say I would not use this butt plate design again.  However, having installed it, I came up with a half a$$ed engraving design for the butt plate.

Good luck with the project.  I'm sure with the suggestions of others you can come up with a better engraving plan for yours.

Best

PS  I Used the same lock and trigger guard on a blunderbuss a while back.  Different butt plate though.  On the English rifle trigger guard, I REALLY HATED the design I engraved on the "flower vase" end of the guard.  I liked the design I used on the blunderbuss trigger guard flower vase much better....

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=38909.50

[flatsguide]

Dave, thanks for piping in. I remember that thread and how impressed I was (still am) of your work. I’m getting forgetful in my old age and it reminded me that I took a trip a number of years ago to PA to photograph the Turvey rifle. Just need to resurrect them. Thanks for posting the blunderbuss thread. My vote is for the  English rifle flower on the trigger guard.
Thanks,
Richard

[Monty59]

Hello, here a few pic's from my original Ketland Fowler for your inspiration.

Monty

[flatsguide]

Thanks Monty, that is really nice. Thanks for sharing.
Cheers Richard

[Daryl]

Watch some old Monty Python videos for the flowing intro art with flowers, etc.