Alfred Gross Attributed Rifle

[Cory McArtor]

https://live.jeffreysevans.com/online-auctions/jeffrey-evans/eastern-tennessee-kentucky-style-long-rifle-6289448

I stumbled onto this today and figured I would share it since I don't plan to bid. I love this style of rifle and am trying to grow in my knowledge. I had two questions about it:
1. Were german silver mounts common on rifles from this area/era?
2. The mounts on this rifle seem shiny for a rifle of this age. Is that indicative of it being cleaned/polished or them being replacements? For specific reference, look at the two parts of the toe plate. One looks tarnished, the other looks pretty new/shiny.

Thanks for helping a new guy like me learn!

[A Scanlan]

Experts can respond...I'm not expert BUT have never seen a silver patch box on a TN rifle.  And I think I did note the toe plate issue.  The smaller one looks like brass and the longer one is silver suggesting it was added later and that suggests that maybe the box was also a latter addition.  Overall condition seems "polished" but it remains an attractive rifle.  I  have had the opportunity to personally inspect it.  I like it but then I like them all which results in making an occasional error.
 

HOWEVER!!  I do recall some that were recently sold at auction by Gross and there was some "fancy" work including a box that may have been a combination of brass and silver but I think there were also signed.  Maybe they stand as the foundation of the Gross attribution??  It is a snazzy feature for sure.

[Cory McArtor]

After looking at the pictures more, I almost wonder if the original toe plate was one piece, but part of it broke/got lost and got replaced with the shiny piece.

I'm totally not an expert either. All my knowledge comes from reading posts on here and a few originals I've seen in museums and such. I need to get more books, but they aren't at the top of my budget.

[A Scanlan]

Even with questions as noted it is a very nice rifle.  At $1000 to $1500 it would be a buy.  Of course Evans estimates are of little significance IMO.  Surprised there are no more responses so maybe some of the experts are looking to buy it thus keeping quiet and maybe they are convinced it is a Gross rifle and if there are a few of them in the room or on line it could fetch 3 to 4 thousand or more.  If I could have got it for $1500 some time back I probably would have purchased it.

[A Scanlan]

Most interesting.  Questions on a southern rifle of an attributed notable maker gets no attention except for 2 people.  Hard to believe no one has any thoughts.  Makes me feel that everyone is wishing the subject were never posted so they can sneak in and scoop up a bargain.  I'll be watching it.  Might even preview it next week but sadly I'm a net seller these days.  Accumulation phase is over.

[bama]

I think you are correct about the comments. There is more than one out there that will be interested in this rifle. You are correct in that there were very few that were made with German Silver mounts but this would be one of the few. I would definitely attribute it to a member of the Gross family. It is unfortunate that it has been heavily cleaned and the toe plate extended and the screws replaced with new modern screws. I am not sure but the patch box may be a replacement also. Still, it is a nice rifle and would be a good addition to anyone who collects these rifles. The little injustice that has been done can be undone by the right people.

I like the rifle and thanks for sharing it. It will be fun to watch to see who on here will be the lucky winner.   

[A Scanlan]

Now, there is a opinion you can take to the bank!  Thank you Mr. Parker!!

ACS

[Tanselman]

Perhaps the limited comments are partly due to the rifle being unsigned, a detraction for many major collectors when guesswork becomes involved... and auctions/sellers want to assign a quick name/attribution, so the gun has some "roots" to strengthen its value. The gun may well be a Gross, but Jim perhaps said it best when he left it open to a family member. The gun has a number of small deviations from Alfred's work in triggers, tang, butt plate heel length, very sharp comb, etc. Perhaps being mounted in German silver with a commercial guard impacted other decisions on the gun, but we're all guessing. Some of the work of Jacob Gross looks, in my opinion, closer to this rifle than Alfred's work. I think, as Jim suggested, the attribution needs to cast a wider net than just Alfred Gross at this time, until more study is done.

Shelby Gallien

[A Scanlan]

A second opinion...excellent!  Now there is one more forum member that should be looking at this gun and this thread.  Be nice to see what he says.

[A Scanlan]

Took another personal look at it today and made notes against those shown in David Byrd's book.  Sure thing the Gross family seemed to like silver although no silver guards were shown.  Lines on the cheek rails similar to Jonathan, Jacob seems to have liked silver, and yes, Alfred shows some silver work as well.  One photo shows a 2 piece toe plate and it looks like it could be 2 different metals, maybe one silver and one brass??  I also see they have updated the price range, now $2000 to $3000.  Let the mystery continue as to which Gross but all in all it's a pretty nice rifle...OK OK maybe too "clean" but still nice.  There is a lot of good things in this auction.  Hard to believe that someone who maybe came for another item won't jump on this for the price range noted.  $3000 is not bad for a sound southern rifle even unsigned and even with some questionable features.

[Avlrc]

https://live.brunkauctions.com/online-auctions/brunk/alfred-gross-tennessee-long-rifle-6172761

[Tanselman]

Nice to see a signed rifle without questions about origin and exhibiting typical details for Alfred's work. I guess Brunk is educating us about what a converted flintlock plate looks like, but I'm a little dubious about that claim.

Shelby Gallien 

[A Scanlan]

Passes to a new owner for $3444.....20% buyers premium in that figure.