Author Topic: any thoughts on this long rifle?  (Read 1210 times)

Offline altankhan

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any thoughts on this long rifle?
« on: July 23, 2024, 03:56:47 AM »
This longrifle, barrel "39 inches, unsigned, converted, smoothbore (at present) of about 50 cal.; somewhat rough in places on the white metal work; tastefully gracile; walked into an AOLRC (Association of Ohio Long Rifle Collectors) antique gun show in Newark, Ohio a year or so before the Pandemic.  Seems to have been a local possession (though not confirmed). I came by it recently and am attempting to "place" it in terms of regional style, if not maker.  After perusing everything I have on Ohio rifles, it seems the sort of low roman nose and "York county" (?) style patch box was not a frequent combination among Ohio makers (some of whom were transplants or temporaries residents before making for points west).  One name does rise to the surface as a possibility -- Nathan Kile (1797-) (whose 1817 dated rifle is in the Smithsonian Institution-- easy to find by typing his name into the "Collections" inbox) is listed at working somewhere along Raccoon Creek In Jackson Co. Ohio.  Material on Kile's life (born in Virginia) is found in Spiker and Whisker's Arms Makers of Ohio (and other publications of the AOLRC) It is interesting that Raccoon Creek runs through Newark.  I have not seen the Smithsonian flint rifle first hand -- but it appears to be a fancier (carving and more inlays, one piece sideplate) and somewhat earlier rifle that the one in the pictures here. I do see some similarities in overall stock design (lock area moldings, comb and wrist, etc.) and certain details including placement of inlays, general style of engraving, piercings on the lower patch box, shape of belly plate. I am just hoping here if there  is anything about the pictures below that ring any bells.      The front sight is a small iron peg that seems to have been there a long time (barrel may have been shortened at one point?) and the belly plate may have been removed and replaced at some point (maybe in a refinishing attempt).  Any thoughts appreciated


















« Last Edit: July 24, 2024, 09:17:04 PM by Ky-Flinter »

Offline Tanselman

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2024, 04:41:05 AM »
The patchbox style, top lock bolt washer's "different" shape, and single trigger suggest New York, and the curly maple stock suggests well outside of New York city, probably in western regions.

Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: July 24, 2024, 07:15:43 PM by Tanselman »

Offline Daryl

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2024, 07:06:33 PM »
VERY nice rifle!
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline jdm

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2024, 08:01:00 PM »
Kind of reminds me of   J.M. Caswell out of New York

JIM

Offline mountainman

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2024, 10:16:55 PM »
I have a long rifle that has the pretty much the same hardware, same style patch box, trigger guard, butt plate, and even the barrel length is the same. It would seem though your rifle was made by a different hand.















If you notice the patch box is made as a two-piece patch box, you can see where the two rivets are that hold the lid for the hinges.

Offline jdm

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2024, 10:38:54 PM »
Looks like two J.M.Caswell rifles. Noticed the JMC on the top flat of mountainman's rifle.  The patina on both boxes matches the  lids on each perspective rifle . They look like they have always been there. Both are very pleasing rifles.  Jim
« Last Edit: July 24, 2024, 01:14:57 AM by jdm »
JIM

Offline altankhan

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2024, 04:21:29 AM »
Thanks to all for the valuable feedback!  Poking around the internet there seems to be a range of stock styles of rifles bearing the  J M Caswell signature/stamp/affiliation. 

btw, the rifle in the pictures has a round button patch box lid release in the toe plate.  The patch box/hardware set does seem like a standard pattern... is Mountain Man's engraved?

Offline mountainman

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2024, 03:57:56 PM »
I can't see any evidence of the patch box being engraved. The toe plate had the patchbox release as well, on the picture you can see a brass rod sticking through a little out of the hole, where the top of the toe plate was in the rounded area. I don't know if that was the original hole or not. The fact that the toe of the stock was broken off at one time makes you wonder. I see another hole right in front of that where the pin is sticking through.


Offline altankhan

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2024, 02:40:57 AM »
here are a few more photos for reference -- including the toe plate









Offline Dave Peelgren

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2024, 07:35:59 PM »
I have a P. Leddeck rifle with the same patch box and it’s a N.Y. gun.
Dave P

Offline altankhan

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2024, 04:19:25 AM »
Hi Dave P, Any photos? it would be interesting to compare.

Offline Dave Peelgren

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Re: any thoughts on this long rifle?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2024, 05:36:30 PM »
Yes I have lots of pictures but I’m not sure how to post them. Send me your email and I’ll send you the pictures.