Author Topic: That one time I built a gun.  (Read 1345 times)

Offline Frozen Run

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That one time I built a gun.
« on: September 11, 2024, 02:59:36 AM »
I have a handful of parts and a dream. My plan is to use the Foxfire architecture (loosely?) as the foundation for a Wayne Estes inspired funkytown mountain rifle. It will be 3/4 stock and percussion. The finish will be rattle can, and it may have a compass in the stock. Somewhere.

Constructive and destructive criticism are both equally encouraged.

Enjoy.

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2024, 03:06:18 AM »
Looks like I’m gonna have to bring back those hillbilly raiders back to the shop for an encore. Anything goes fellers.
Stop Marxism in America

Offline Spalding

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2024, 03:46:03 AM »



Offline mikeyfirelock

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2024, 05:30:03 AM »
      Can be of help to you………my first several builds were exactly what you have just described. ( I can do this very easily, and at no charge.)
 Mikeyfirelock
( they are looking better now than in 1972)
Mike Mullins

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2024, 09:39:43 AM »
Mikey, that would be much appreciated!


I did a basic mock-up of the build. The outline and barrel inlet was done by my buddy John, I believe he was in contact with Ian who helped him with the pattern? Those are the two breech plugs I have for it, I don't feel confident forging the tangs so I'll either go with a short spear point or a long spike, probably the later. The stick is a cheap blank I got from Al, it has a huge chunk missing around the toe and cheek face that will either go away in shaping or I'll add a donor piece and staples to look like a toe repair. The barrel is a 42" DGW .45 that some people believe is a restamped Douglas. The lock is an original goulcher I bought off someone here a number of years back. It has a pretty elaborate hunting scene on it, the sear spring is shot and the tumbler has seen better days. The triggers are Bob Roller's. I'm not sure what the wood rib came off off, just that it was round and the pipes I believe are german silver. 




I believe I will need to cut the rib about halfway between the rear of it and the rear pipe to get the proportions right? Also, the "web" thickness of the rib seems to be way too much at .338? That's about twice the web thickness for a longrifle. And measuring the web thickness on a halfstock I'm currently working on gets me .270 or so. I believe I'm going to need to find some happy balance between all of the numbers and make the proper adjustments beneath the forend to acomodate? Make the rib too thin and it just breaks, make it too thick and there is too much belly underneath the lock.   



Offline alacran

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2024, 12:31:07 PM »
One man's dream is another man's nightmare Lol.
Seriously though just go for it. Don't overthink it.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline Gaeckle

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2024, 02:06:19 PM »
Don, bring that in on Saturday and I'll show you what you need to do for the web, rib and basic layout. You're over thinking this and adding complications. I was planning on being down in Cincinnati, but that fell thru, so I can be at the Cabin

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2024, 02:52:13 PM »
Yes, you too can build a rifle that looks good and functions well borrowing architecture from different historical firearms. And when done, they can "fit a given need" in your collection.

Go for it!



Offline oldtravler61

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2024, 06:10:48 PM »
  I to am a professional cobbler. I can take about anything and make a functional gun or whatever out of it. My guns all have character also..!
So don't over think this and wing it....   The more  character the better!

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2024, 06:53:11 PM »
Thank you for all the encouragement everyone! There will likely be a copper sideplate, how much there is after that will largely depend on input from the hillbilly raider chieftain. I do plan on putting a lot of wiggle on it, wiggle on top of wiggle on top of wiggle. Though that is all speculative at this point. The only embellishment I know for certain that will be incorporated somehow and somewhere are red polka dots. I saw a Mike Brooks gun a few years back that had a cluster of red polka dots on the sideplate panel that trailed off down the wrist. At the time I thought "could have done without all the dots", I was so naive back then, now I kind of like the idea so I'm adding them somewhere as an homage to Brooks.     

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2024, 08:53:17 PM »
 My suggestion would be not to use an antique lock on a gun that is going to get any large degree of shooting. Hardware store locks from the 19th century aren’t strong in the metallurgy department, and replacement parts are pretty much nonexistent. I also would not put the compass in the gunstock. I would put the compass in the plug of your powder horn.

Hungry Horse

Offline mikeyfirelock

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2024, 09:27:33 PM »
Do not put the compass anywhere in the top of the stock………the gun will shoot either to the east or the west, depending on the longitude you are at.
Mike Mullins

Offline mikeyfirelock

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2024, 10:59:15 PM »
Seriously, this time. I would get a good sized piece of cardboard and using the parts you have, draw a mock-up of how you plan to put it together.   Draw a line for the top of the barrel, place the barrel on it, draw a line along the bottom of the barrel, then mark the end of the 3/4 stock you  plan. Mark the lock location, allowing for the breech plug length and drum/flash hole, then lock plate and trigger location according to sear location. Mark trigger pull length ( say 14-1/2 Inches) and drop at heel. Then draw in outline of stock.  Allow for the ramrod hole and bottom of forestock.   Now you can see if your parts will work together, and what you will likely end up with will fit you.   Cut it out, put it up to your shoulder and see if you are looking down the top edge…….ie what would be the line of sight of the finished gun.  Make changes if needed to fit.
Sounds like a lot of work , but it’s not hard to do, is educational, and cheaper than starting over because it doesn’t fit, or doesn’t look like what you want.
Been there.
Mike Mullins

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2024, 07:09:20 AM »
Hungry Horse, you bring up two excellent points. The other advantage of using a modern lock here would be I don't have to fix an antique lock. I've also come to the conclusion that the compass idea is not going to work. Anywhere I can think to put a compass would just look nicer without a compass being there. I had considered putting in a cap box with a hinged door in the storage area that reveals a compass, but honestly I'm past compasses at this point.

Mikey, a full size drawing is a great idea, except for the fact that I'm meeting up with my friend on Saturday and some mornings he gets up and every thing that is not a gun offends him. Half the thing'll get built that afternoon if that's the case making the plans a little moot. 

Offline mikeyfirelock

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2024, 02:27:57 PM »
Yeah….thats kind of the way I do it too.
Mike Mullins

Offline elkhorne

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2024, 05:29:14 AM »
Frozen, Please keep us updated on your progress after you meet with Gaeckle gives you his ideas on what needs to be changed to make your creation look right, feel right and shoot right! This is a dilemma that many of us face when we try to build something out of our imagination and not off a kit or printed plan. Those detailed points he makes will be a beneficial learning opportunity to the rest of us trying to step out on our own. Good luck and love your concept.
elkhorne

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: That one time I built a gun.
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2024, 11:34:27 AM »
Elkhorne, I had discussed the idea for the rifle with my friend Wayne over the phone a couple of weekends ago and he gave it the thumbs up. He's also gifting me a guard for it once it gets further along. It would be dishonest to call it my creation, it's the Foxfire rifle with some minor cosmetic substitutions. John was helping me get ready for the foxfire class and the cheap stick I picked out from my blank tank™ just wasn't quite long enough for the 42" straight barrel requirement. I'm not sure where he got the pattern for it, but it lines up perfectly with my foxfire rifle so it has got to be the foxfire pattern. He believes he had gotten the pattern from Ian but doesn't know how as he's contracted a serious case of CRS.

Anyways, fast forward to the present and I have a blank with the foxfire pattern on it that is inlet for a barrel that is too long for it that I don't want to cut down. I also own a wooden rib I bought from the Log Cabin shop a number of months ago because it was cheap and looked cool. So you have the Foxfire rifle design and you cut a length of forend off and replace it with a rib. Normally, the web thickness is determined by the rib, since mine is wood and I don't want to get too crazy with the maths I'll just dress the rib web down to as close to 1/8 or so, indicate and drill the ramrod on the stock and get the rib to fit that location. I looked at several dozen examples of half and 3/4 stocks' ribs in the museum and determined that they just did and used a combination of whatever they had access to and what looked nice to them: hollow or solid, different lengths, materials, etc. On an interesting sidenote, I observed a lot of the ribs were hollow and that a lot of the hollow ribs were concave on the mating surface with the barrel. I'm assuming that was an ease of manufacture thing for whoever was making the ribs at the time? It differs in that many hollow ribs made nowadays are flat and mate up with the lower flat, many of these originals mated up with the two lower obliques due to them being round.

Anywho, back on track...

Foxfire gun with part of the forend lobbed off and replaced with a rib, moving back there is a percussion lock instead of a flintlock. The original had an angle filed into the bolster so that the tail would flare out to create the correct stock architecture while the lock was sitting against a straight barrel. I'm not doing that here, it'll save me the additional heartbreak of having to mate the lock up to the drum on an angle different than straight. Plus, it's percussion so I can get away with it straight in the panels. I'm using a modern lock as recommended by Hungry Horse. I have a Davis goulcher but want to save those for my Ohio guns, I'd like to use a different lock on my Southern percussion guns just to differentiate them a bit more. I have a Cochran percussion lock that I'll need to study a bit in relation to a number of originals, I am thinking if I square up the tail that it may do and it may even look like a converted Davis late English with enough imagination and a head injury?

I used the Roller triggers instead of a simple trigger because I wanted it to have some nice triggers and because it felt more appropriate for a percussion.

I'm using the longer tang and filing out a spiked tang from it. It's going to be very subtle for the first 2/3 and then transition into a pointy spike after that. This is to preserve as much meat as possible for the tang bolt and counter sink on an already skinny tang, and it may give the illusion of a spear over the length of it but I'm not banking on it. It's going to have a tang bolt that runs through the trigger plate and behind that a ways either an additional wood screw or maybe a second bolt running through an escutcheon in the wrist.

It won't have a buttplate. I don't have a buttplate for it and I do not want the complications and accommodations of incorporating one into the design.                   

I met with Gaeckle today during an informal builders' get together. We met up and he discussed some of the more technical things that I'll need to watch out for and take into consideration. Stylistically he admitted it's a bit outside his wheelhouse so he said I'm flying the ship on this one. I'm pretty sure that that's his version of tough love. My one friend Doran showed up and I explained to him my plan and asked him to point to a spot on the rib/stock, he pointed to a spot roughly halfway between the rear pipe and the rear of the rib and I sawed rib and stock off there.

So architecturally and design wise I'm keeping it as close to the foxfire rifle as possible, using my example and Ian's pictures and the t-shirt I purchased as reference. And then when things start to drift off into 3/4 stock land, I'll use this gun Wayne made to fill in some of the blanks:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=58052.0

Interestingly enough, I had remembered seeing a copper sideplate somewhere a whiles back that I liked for it but couldn't remember where I saw it until I searched for 3/4 stocked rifles on this forum. Mine's going to be a bit different and I may do a front escutcheon for a faux lock bolt.

The embellishments are thematically going to be based around getting a whole lot with very little. It wouldn't make sense, for the flavor of this specific rifle, to have it gilded in copper end to end when is doesn't have a butt plate. A lot of chip carving and wiggle inspired by the Raiders' Rifle below, Woodbury style poured nosecap, as many dovetails as I can fit under a front sight, two (or more?) feather holes so that one could have their choice of feathers at any given time, and also feather holes on a percussion because I am somewhat obsessed with vestigial designs. Stuff like that. Also, I almost forgot, red polka dots somewhere as an homage to Mike Brooks.     

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=75637.0