Alkanet root , how to mix with oil finish.

[Jim Kibler]

We have the Transtint in yellow available as well.

Jim

[flintlock hunter]

Thanks Stoner and Jim.

[AZshot]

I'm getting prepared to do a finish on American walnut, I do want the English oil finish look, with more red.  Have some Alkanet powder steeping in Mineral Spirits now. 

My question is when you use Chambers Oil, don't some people dilute it a little with Mineral Spirits?  What if I used my reddening Mineral Spirits? 

[smart dog]

Hi AZshot,
You can certainly mix the stain into the oil.  That would be the more traditional way.  However, let me mention a few things I have found about finishing any walnut, English or black.  The open pores need filling or you will need to apply many coats of finish. For fine guns in which I seek a completely smooth and sometimes glassy finish, I stain the wood then apply finish, that may also be tinted with stain,  using 220 grit sandpaper.  I sand the finish and wood into a slurry that I then let dry.  This is a method I learned from Taylor Sapergia on this forum.



The finish is thinned 25% during this first coat so it penetrates a little deeper and it stays liquid longer to allow the sanding. I then sand the crust smooth once dry and sometimes repeat but usually one filler coat is all that is needed. Then I use coats of untinned finish to complete the job.  Here are examples done this way.










However, not all walnut guns get this treatment.  When I finish a musket I do not do the filler step.  I simply apply thinned finish as a sealer coat, which may be tinted, and then untinned finish until I get the desired look.  This usually results in the pores of the wood not being fully filled.










That is more typical of military and utilitarian guns.

dave

[AZshot]

Thanks, that red stock about 4th down is the color I'm hoping for.  I know about filling the grain, and your method is approximately what I was planning to use.  See my other thread about the holes in the butt, someone decorated it with a "connect the dots" type of drawing.  I want to try to fill those to be as unobtrusive as possible. 

Another grain filling technique I've read about that is supposedly old school English is to add sprinkles of talcum powder to your oil finishing rubs...I'm thinking about that too. 

Love the color, and now I have 2 bottles of Alkanet soaking, one in Mineral Spirits, one in Boiled Linseed Oil. 

[Carl Young]

let me mention a few things I have found about finishing any walnut, English or black.  The open pores need filling. I stain the wood then apply finish, that may also be tinted with stain,  using 220 grit sandpaper.  I sand the finish and wood into a slurry that I then let dry.
The finish is thinned 25% during this first coat so it penetrates a little deeper and it stays liquid longer to allow the sanding. I then sand the crust smooth once dry and sometimes repeat but usually one filler coat is all that is needed.
dave

That's the way I learned from two old NMLRA members (both originally from Pennsylvania) about 40+ years ago. Sometimes I have used finely powdered charcoal in the mix as well.

Regards,
Carl

[DillyJamba]

You might find this interesting.

http://www.sbmcwilliams.com/

Fred

I haven't been able to find any of this product for sale on ebay, currently soaking Alkanet root in turpentine hoping to get a rich red color out of walnut. Any suggestions?

[Curtis]

Found this in a search:
http://www.sbmcwilliams.com/store/p6/www.sbmcwilliams.com.html

Looks like the store is functional.



I really like the oil, it is great stuff.

Curtis

[Dphariss]

In relation to color fastness. Has anyone painted Alkanet treated oil on a scrap of stock wood then hung it in the sun on a back fence for example,  for 6 months or a year? I would suggest that people try this with all the modern stains and plastic finishes. Pretty sure, based on Bill Knight’s (rest in peace Bill) experiments, there will be some surprises.
I have never stained walnut  but twice that I recall once on a SMR (sorta) when I was 18 using BLO with black crayon melted in it for color (from a Muzzle Blasts article from 1967-68) and an original Sharps that was pretty nastily damaged by a phobically careful coworker (he was final assemble/inspection guy) during reassembly. Fortunately for me and everyone involved Bill had sent me some Walnut hull and Butternut hull extract and that matched the old color along with some oil I had cooked up. Along with some Elmer carpenter glue it came out far better than one would hope being undetectable. It belonged to a third party and was in the plant for examination.
Unless very pale, near white,  as was the original Sharps was heat bodied BLO give most walnut all the color it needs. Even European walnut.

[AZshot]

I've tried Alkanet in BLO on a couple of walnut stocks now, and even did a hickory ax handle with it.  I really like it's color.  I haven't checked it's color fastness, all my work is less than 2 years old.  But I did a lot of research on british doubles which used "red oil" a lot.  Most of the fine old English double shotguns and rifles which I see looked great at 100 or more years, and I'd say most used alkanet oil.  I will do a scrap wood experiement when I get my next proj going.

Here is a 1910s shotgun butt I did, which had a badly oil-soaked stock, it was almost black and you couldn't see any wood grain or figure. It had to be soaked in acetone to get the oil soaked stock unblack.  Then I used about 3 coats of alkanet in mineral oil, then switched to about 8 coats of alkanet in BLO.

[Spalding]

Although not quite red, I did the alkanet root in turpentine thing, mixed it about 50/50 with Tried & True, and used it for the first couple coats, then a couple coats of plain Tried & True.
I wanted a dark finish, so I first hit the wood with steel wool dissolved in vinegar, which turned the walnut black. Rubbed it back quite a bit, then applied the finish.
It’s a Southern gun so I didn’t want to really fill the grain much. A smooth shiny finish doesn’t look right to me, but to each their own.

Bob

[Jim Kibler]

Spalding,

I think that's a nice color you got on that stock!

Jim

[Spalding]

Spalding,

I think that's a nice color you got on that stock!

Jim

Thanks Jim, and I get a LOT of compliments on how fast your lock is on it, too.
Bob

[Vicanddogs]

Dave what do you use to filter when you mix with turpentine
Thanks
Vic

[smallpatch]

Coffee filters.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Yes, coffee filters and sometimes several layers of cheese cloth.  I always have coffee filters available at home but sometime don't have cheese cloth.

dave

[Dennis Daigger]

Another source for powdered alkanet:
https://mountainroseherbs.com/alkanet-root-powder
Dennis

[Snowmoon]

The finish is thinned 25% during this first coat so it penetrates a little deeper and it stays liquid longer to allow the sanding. I then sand the crust smooth once dry and sometimes repeat but usually one filler coat is all that is needed. Then I use coats of untinned finish to complete the job.

Hi Dave, when you say thinned 25%, are you saying 75% finish  like tung oil and 25%, say, mineral spirits or turpentine? Thanks!

[AZshot]

I have done some experiments with alkanet in mineral spirits and it hardly stains walnut at all.  See my other post. 

It seems to work well in boiled linseed oil though.  My bottle has been steeping about a year, and is so dark red you canno see through it.  The one in mineral spirits is a transparent, like pinkish red.  Go for the oil.  I haven't tried turpentine yet.