is the 40 cal. enough for deer?

[wolf]

[/img] i killed this buck this morning with my 40 cal. SMR 80yds 62gr. of goex 3f and round ball. this is the second one i have killed this year with this gun at 8yds. the first was heart shot and made it about 50yds and fell dead. this one dropped stone dead. all it takes is shot placement,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[wolf]

here was the one i shot with the 40 2 Fridays ago,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Daniel Coats]

I agree half of it is shot placement, so's the other half!

[Hungry Horse]

 I think once again you have to specify what species of deer. A little black tail like we have out here on the left coast would fine, as would a cous deer down on the border. But a big muley unless he’s standing on the toes of your boots  might make for some serious tracking. Same thing for some of those white tails that live on the fence line of corn field all their live, and tip the scales at 200 plus. Or just get real close, and shoot him in the ear.

Hungry Horse

[wolf]

well, even big deer will die fast if heart shot or hit in the neck or lungs. all the ball has to do is penetrate into a vital area. if i were shooting larger animals with a 40 i would limit it to 50yds,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Daniel Coats]

What part of the ear is the question? We ear marked Mulie bucks same as cattle on our ranch in Colorado when I was a boy.

[Hungry Horse]

 Bur of the ear, they drop like you flipped a switch. As for heart shots, I’ve tracked more heart shot bucks than you can imagine. Pilgrims often come back to camp and tell you they shot at a buck, and it jumped the bullet.They can go a lot farther with a shot out pump than most people would ever believe and hardly leak a drop of blood. Double lung shot is good if your gun has enough punch to get them both. But since I hate boning out necks, that is my favorite shot.

Hungry Horse

[Scota4570]

I think once again you have to specify what species of deer. A little black tail like we have out here on the left coast would fine, as would a cous deer down on the border. But a big muley unless he’s standing on the toes of your boots  might make for some serious tracking. Same thing for some of those white tails that live on the fence line of corn field all their live, and tip the scales at 200 plus. Or just get real close, and shoot him in the ear.

Hungry Horse

I agree.  I have killed about 60 blacktails over the years.  In 2024 getting one is very expensive and difficult.  Back then I used moderns and ML's of a variety of calibers.  These little deer are no issue to kill, most of the time.  A bad shot can be a disaster no matter the caliber.  A marginal shot can give a very different result with a peashooter vs a larger ball .   Once in a long while you get an opportunity for a very large buck.  Do you risk an imperfect shot with a peashooter and possibly loose a trophy of a lifetime?  Back then we could use lead ammo, so your smaller calibers worked better.  Today you must use non lead.  That changed everything.  I have never understood the compulsion to use pipsqueak calibers for hunting.  I feel an ethical obligation the animal to kill it cleanly under all circumstances.   Maybe caliber will matter, maybe not, you will not know until the time to shoot.  What is wrong with a little insurance? 

[Martin S.]

I think once again you have to specify what species of deer. A little black tail like we have out here on the left coast would fine, as would a cous deer down on the border. But a big muley unless he’s standing on the toes of your boots  might make for some serious tracking. Same thing for some of those white tails that live on the fence line of corn field all their live, and tip the scales at 200 plus. Or just get real close, and shoot him in the ear.

Hungry Horse

I agree.  I have killed about 60 blacktails over the years.  In 2024 getting one is very expensive and difficult.  Back then I used moderns and ML's of a variety of calibers.  These little deer are no issue to kill, most of the time.  A bad shot can be a disaster no matter the caliber.  A marginal shot can give a very different result with a peashooter vs a larger ball .   Once in a long while you get an opportunity for a very large buck.  Do you risk an imperfect shot with a peashooter and possibly loose a trophy of a lifetime?  Back then we could use lead ammo, so your smaller calibers worked better.  Today you must use non lead.  That changed everything.  I have never understood the compulsion to use pipsqueak calibers for hunting.  I feel an ethical obligation the animal to kill it cleanly under all circumstances.   Maybe caliber will matter, maybe not, you will not know until the time to shoot.  What is wrong with a little insurance?

Where do you live that you can't use lead?

[wolf]

there are only 2 kinds of shots in the real world, vital hits and non vital hits. i live in SC, our deer season runs from Aug 15 through JAN1 on private land. up until about 6 years ago we had no limit on bucks, no tags, no nothing. we have a lot of deer and i have killed 100s in my 67 years. a deer hit in the lungs, heart, will die within 50 yds most times. if they make 100yds that is very rare. if they are hit wrong, you may follow blood for a mile and never see them again, i do not care what they are hit with! it makes no difference. i would rather have a heart shot deer with a 32 that a gut shot deer with a 62,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Austin]

Good job!

[Hungry Horse]

 California has a lead ban that extends to muzzleloaders as well as cartridge firearms. In my opinion it makes for a lot more wounded, and non-retrieved game.

Hungry Horse

[Martin S.]

California has a lead ban that extends to muzzleloaders as well as cartridge firearms. In my opinion it makes for a lot more wounded, and non-retrieved game.

Hungry Horse

Wow!  I thought it was just for ducks.

What can you use in a ML without ruining the barrel?

[Daryl]

All-out lead ban in Kal.
ITX is about the only non-lead ball I know of.  I do not know the final diameters of them. That is important.
The early ones were too large, imho. That means for being a VERY hard ball, they were too close to bore size
& would not allow a decent patch.

[wolf]

amazing! supposedly free men, allowing the public servants that work for them to outlaw lead! why would a man stand for this? unbelievable! why don't some real men stand up and say NO! WE WILL NOT COMPLY! when they try to kick their doors in and steal their guns will they allow that to happen? what you allow to happen will only get worst! thank God i am a redneck in the south with redneck public servants who think the way i do! for now anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Dphariss]

22 LR has killed a lot of deer in Montana and not with head shots. And remember they are not bullet proof. And shot placement beats power..

[Darkhorse]

I'm sure the 40 is a good killer when the deer is hit right. I hunt turkeys with my 40 and it has impressed me. But here's the rub....It can be very thick down here and sometimes, no matter how careful you are, that little ball hits just a little off the mark. When that happens I want something larger. The .54 is my choice for deer sized game.
To put it another way, I light tackle fish but I don't light tackle hunt.

[wolf]

well, i am in SC, all of our woods are thick. i don't shoot a deer behind limbs, i shoot hair and meat, what i can see. so, a ball bouncing off a twig is so remote it is not a concern.

[Scota4570]

Yeah, California.  The ITX balls are all oversized.  They are not mailable.  They should be made smaller than they are.  A friend shoots them.  The 50 and 62 cal balls are near impossible to load with any reasonable patch.  A field reload is impossible.  I also think that they probably damage gun barrels.  The balls are super hard and leaded steel is not.  Tungsten vs leaded steel is no a fair matchup. 

[Dphariss]

California has a lead ban that extends to muzzleloaders as well as cartridge firearms. In my opinion it makes for a lot more wounded, and non-retrieved game.

Hungry Horse

This is just the tip of the iceberg. But the residents flee the totalitarianism and come to places like Montana and screw those states up in one way or another.

[Daryl]

Yeah, California.  The ITX balls are all oversized.  They are not mailable.  They should be made smaller than they are.  A friend shoots them.  The 50 and 62 cal balls are near impossible to load with any reasonable patch.  A field reload is impossible.  I also think that they probably damage gun barrels.  The balls are super hard and leaded steel is not.  Tungsten vs leaded steel is no a fair matchup.

I was hoping ITX had solved the oversize ball situation by now.

[alacran]

Your question and the reply are in your pictures, about 3000 words worth.

[Hungry Horse]

 I use lead free pewter to cast my ammo. It’s cheap, but you have to get an undersized mold to make your balls, because lead free pewter is primarily tin which doesn’t shrink when it cools. The burden of proof is on the arresting officer and California Fish and Wildlife has the equipment to test not only the spent ball, but the wound channel as well.
 Worrying about your barrel is just silly. You’re going to patch the ball aren’t you? Heck with a thick enough patch you could shoot a rock.

Hungry Horse

[Scota4570]

This only field test I am aware of is this:  https://streamsystems.com/stream_website/hotshot/more_info/hotshot.htm

In the laboratory, where I worked,  there are elemental analysis techniques.  These can not be used in the field.  My experience in the field is having the warden check the label on the box of ammo or package the ball came from, ITX.  There is an approved list with US Fish and wildlife.  Most warden are OK people. 

https://wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonlead-Ammunition#25046248-how-will-wildlife-officers-check-for-compliance

How will wildlife officers check for compliance?

All ammunition in a hunter’s possession may be inspected by wildlife officers. In some cases, if a wildlife officer suspects a hunter is in possession of lead ammunition and cannot prove otherwise in the field, he or she may seize a cartridge or bullet for further analysis. Hunters are encouraged to assist in confirming compliance by retaining and carrying in the field ammunition boxes or other packaging.

My point is that if a guy were to use some home made lead free option be prepared to give documentation in the field.  IF the warden is not satisfied or just being difficult he may confiscate your gun and ammo.  California is a special place where many wardens do no like hunters and may use their authority to make your life miserable.  I found that to be the case at the Hunter Ligget military reservation.  Can you hunt there?  Yes.  Do they make it such a pain that you will not have a good time, yes.  Will they interrupt you repeatedly to check your guns and ammo?  In my experience, yes they do.  It is a really bad deal because they have ML and archery areas, which I like.  I even made a ML for hunting there only to find out that is must have a manufacturer and serial number to register it with the Feds.   

[Mooonax]

Well Virginia has lowered their caliber standards to 40 cal for some reason. I guess that’s there’s a new 40 cal inline out there. So that means I can legally hunt with my 40 cal flintlock so I’m going to give it a try.