Builders HELP needed !!

[A Scanlan]

I have a Don Stith made (not a kit but by Don) "Hawken".  Don called it a St Louis Squirrel rifle.  Sweet little rifle with a nasty feature.  At the breech, nipple side, is a burr.  When attempting to clean the bore the patch will hang on this burr and is impossible to get out without putting some water down the barrel, softening the patch and then it will be able to be pulled out.  I can see the burr with a bore scope and it seems the only way to correct is to remove the barrel and breech and file down the burr.

SO, I got the barrel out and now am looking at the breech.  Is this a hooked breech?  If so I'm thinking the tang will need to be separated then the actual breech plug unscrewed??   OR if not a hooked breech just trying to turn the plug and tang together??

Clearly over my pay grade here.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

A. Scanlan

[rich pierce]

Yes, this is a hooked breech and the tang portion should separate easily by levering the tang downward upward. Then the threaded portion can be removed like any breechplug. Use a very strong vise, and clamp the barrel an inch forward of the breechplug so as to not be clamping the threads. Protect the barrel with sheet brass, sheet plastic, or whatever is incompressible and not thick. Get a long handled crescent wrench of monkey wrench on the breech hook section. Have at it. I often protect the hook as well with thin sheet copper or brass.

If there’s no movement you can smack the wrench with a rawhide hammer, wooden mallet, copper hammer, or the like. Lefty loosey.

If there’s no movement consider an overnight soak in penetrating oil. 1:1 acetone and transmission fluid is the best but use what you have, and give it a go the next day.

If that doesn’t work get rid of all the oil and heat the barrel, not the plug, till water sizzles. From there on it’s up to you how hot you get the breech end of the barrel.

Let’s say it’s impossible but you’re a clever person who can thread and turn steel. Make a “jag” that just fits the coned portion of the parent breech from stock wider than that orifice. Flare it on an arc.

Now file half of it off so it becomes a D bit. Use that to remove the burr.

[A Scanlan]

"lever the tang up"....does that mean with the barrel positioned as if it were to be fired?  So pressure is applied to the underside of the tang.

With these questions I guess we can dismiss the concept of a clever person!!

But I do like the idea of trying to address it from the muzzle end.  This tang and plug have a bunch of rust.  It may not come off easily.

[Blacksmoke]

  A Scanlan:  When unbreeching any gun always use a little heat!  about 200 - 300 hundred degrees, this can be achieved by using a small propane plumber's torch.  Yes you have a hooked breech to work with.  After you separate the female and male hook portion you will have hook to work with, use an adjustable wrench to lock onto the hook and with a little heat applied to the barrel unscrew it. That is called the breech plug. Unscrewed it will expose the threaded portion of the barrel. Look closely at the inside shoulder where the breech plug comes up against the rifling. That is where you will find the burr that is grabbing onto your cleaning patch. Yes with a small file you can file the burr away.  Put the breech back together and problem solved!!  Good luck.  HT.

[A Scanlan]

I think I have the concept.  Now just to get it done.  Soaking in oil now.  Just don't want to scar the barrel or damage the finish.  Thinking more about the down the muzzle approach.

[DGB]

STOP!!!
That is clearly a patent breech plug..See the index mark up ahead of the end of the barrel, and I see the joint line on my computer.
All other advice is good, but put your wrench on the plug, not the hook!
That snag in the bore is actually not hard to remove. Use a small round file and a little time and you can do it.
Soak the plug with some penetrating oil over night or a couple of days before starting.
 Good luck, it is not a difficult project.

[rich pierce]

Dave is right. I had a transient ischemic attack (joking) and forgot, somehow, that you must turn the whole breech, not the hook. No other explanation absolves me!

 

[alacran]

Here goes, a patent breech's orifice needs to be smaller than the bore.  You have a bore scope so you can easily determine if this is so. Also, typically a patent breeches bottom tends to be parabolic and not flat.
My point if the patent breech's opening is not smaller than the bore your patches will always hang up. The burr that you are seeing, may be a same as bore opening on the breech plug that is not lining up perfectly on the nipple side.
If the bottom of the breech plug is parabolic a standard jag will give you problems cleaning it.
If the breech plugs opening is smaller than the bore you may be able to remove a burr with without removing the breech plug.

[A Scanlan]

After the tang was off and I cleaned up the hook it was obvious the hook was actually a part of the breach and yes I did see the index marks.  Some locals that are very well informed cautioned me about trying to remove it, problem being getting it back in position may be a bigger problem that the burr not to mention messing up the finish.  It also seems to be something that is not common but yet not uncommon on this type of breech.  For now I will try the alternative of clearing it via a down the bore approach.  Yesterday AM I glued some wet/dry sand paper on the end of a dowel and turned it in the chuck of a cordless drill.  The effect was negligible but maybe with a heavier grit and more effort it could improve things.

It took some talking to get Don to part with this rifle.  I think it may have been his wife's.  After I shot it and cleaned it I mentioned this issue.  He seemed to not want to discuss it!  Maybe now I know why.

Thanks for the help.  I'll post an update in the near future.

[A Scanlan]

All done!
Wish I had taken a "before" photo so the burr could be seen...but it's gone now.  It was at the dark spot about 7 o'clock



And now to go out and shoot it!  Back together in one piece. (BTW, J. Goodeon barrel.)

[rich pierce]

Yay! Problem solved!

[Daryl]

Those are excellent barrels.

[ScottH]

Good work! On a fine looking rifle too!

[dadybear1]

CHECK WITH MARK WEADER----  HE GOT ALL OF DON STITHs  PATTERNS,    STAY SAFE ALL    JEFF IN TEXAS