Author Topic: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer  (Read 1236 times)

Offline Catskinner

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Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« on: January 24, 2025, 04:30:08 AM »
I searched the archives for information on this but found mostly a preference for one or the other.  My question is can Chambers stock finish be rubbed on after two coats of Permalyn sealer have applied on walnut stock? 

Online smylee grouch

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2025, 06:12:05 AM »
I probably don't understand this but don't both of those products do basically the same thing?  Redundant?

Offline Daryl

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2025, 06:55:12 AM »
No reason why not, that I can see.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Steeltrap

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2025, 04:26:40 PM »
Sealer and finish do two different things. At least I think that's correct.

I finished a T\C stock after sanding completely down to the walnut. Applied a sealer, then Chambers finish. The sealer filled all wood grain as was its purpose. The finish gave it the soft glean that it should have.

Offline scottmc

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2025, 05:11:03 PM »
Catskinner, yes, it can be done.  I have done it several times and works fine.  Apply thin coats of chambers.  I don't know how many coats of permalyn you applied but if you did at least 2, you should need no more than 3 coats of chambers.
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Offline sdilts

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2025, 05:24:35 PM »
I used Chambers oil over Permalyn sealer, and the Chambers oil has worn off on the forearm and the wrist area where I hold it. I don't remember if I sanded the Permalyn before applying the Chambers oil. Might make a difference, but I don't know.

Offline Catskinner

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2025, 05:38:10 PM »
I applied 2 coats of Permalyn sealer allowing each to dry thoroughly.  I have a half a can Chambers Stock oil so I thought I would use it.  I want to make sure I'm not going to have problems down the road with the Chambers oil not adhering.  You can't seem to find Permalyn finish that's not out of stock.  So is the Chambers OK to use or should I order another product like say Tru Oil.  This a Kibler fowler that I'm working on, a real nice piece of walnut.

Online smylee grouch

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2025, 05:50:39 PM »
I guess my question is if the Chambers oil will penetrate the Permalyn or should the Chambers be applied first with the Permalyn over that ?  :-\

Steeltrap

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2025, 07:34:50 PM »
Here's an AI generated search results that I think may explain it:

A wood sealer is primarily used to create a barrier on the wood surface, preventing deep penetration of liquids like stains and water, while tung oil is a penetrating finish that soaks into the wood fibers, enhancing the natural grain and providing water resistance by filling the wood's pores, essentially acting as a protective layer within the wood itself; a sealer is often applied before a finish like tung oil to ensure even absorption of the finish, while tung oil can be used as a standalone finish on its own depending on the desired look and level of protection needed.

Key differences:
 
Function:
Wood sealer primarily blocks the wood's pores to prevent staining and moisture absorption, while tung oil penetrates deep into the wood to protect and enhance its natural appearance.
 
Application:
A wood sealer is typically applied as a first layer before applying a topcoat like tung oil, whereas tung oil can be applied directly to the wood surface with multiple coats to build up protection.

Aesthetic:
Wood sealer usually doesn't significantly alter the wood's appearance, while tung oil accentuates the wood grain and can add a slightly warm, honey-like color.

When to use each:

Wood sealer:
Use when you want to protect wood from significant moisture damage, prevent uneven stain absorption, or when applying a finish that might not penetrate well on its own.

Tung oil:
Use when you want to highlight the natural beauty of the wood, achieve a water-resistant finish, and prefer a more natural looking finish with minimal build-up.

Online AZshot

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2025, 08:12:41 PM »
Isn't "a sealer" meant to seal the wood so the finish won't keep soaking in?  I.E. doing what it's supposed to do as a first step.  Chambers Oil works fine on dry wood or sealed.

Offline Catskinner

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2025, 09:29:33 PM »
Thanks to everyone for their advise.  It seems the consensus is that I will not have a problem putting Chambers finish over the Permalyn sealer.  You know how it is, you invest so much money in these muzzleloaders the last thing you want to do is screw it up.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2025, 09:52:58 PM »
Catskinner, yes, it can be done.  I have done it several times and works fine.  Apply thin coats of chambers.  I don't know how many coats of permalyn you applied but if you did at least 2, you should need no more than 3 coats of chambers.

This should have been enough to convince. Someone who has actually done this.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Online smylee grouch

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2025, 01:59:53 AM »
Thank you Steeltrap for your run down , Having never used Permalyn on any of the 40+ guns I have done I guess its about time I learn and enter the 21st Century.   :-[

Offline scottmc

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2025, 02:31:51 AM »
I noticed someone mentioned chambers wearing off in areas where there is a lot of wear.  Yes, that can happen but I've seen that with other builders guns, too.  I dont think you can prevent that if you shoot your rifle a lot.  Thankfully, it's a simple fix.  Just rub some more chambers onto the stock at the end of the season.
I've gravitated away from using permalyn, not because I didn't like it, but just because I heard of something else and wanted to try.  I've done on it on the past two rifles and it is two coats of waterlox for a sealer and then chambers over that.  I like it so far and the lox doesn't set up as quick as the permalyn so you wipe off the excess after about 15 minutes.
Remember Paoli!

Offline Darkhorse

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2025, 05:04:31 AM »
My hunting rifles are 20 years and older. Both done with just the Chambers oil. I have never had a problem with rain or humidity so I guess Chambers seals well enough. One does have a little wear but it's shot a lot. It doesn't need another application yet if ever.

When I put on the first coat of Chambers I slop it on heavy and stock absorbs the finish. I slop on some more until the stock no longer absorbs the finish. Then I give it a few minutes and wipe the excess off with a clean cloth and hang the stock to dry. The next day I lightly sand the stock and vacum it and wipe it again. Then I repeat with a heavy coat until the stock will absorb no more. Wipe off the excess and hang to dry. The stock is now sealed. I also take a q tip, dip it in Chambers and run it into all the screw holes I can, into the lock mortice, butt, barrel channel and anywhere wood is showing.
I apply the actual finish coats with my fingers or a clean cloth, then rub it with my palm until I get some warmth from friction. The cloth has given me a better finish than the fingers I think. Lightly sanding between coats and taking care I have no runs. I put 8 to 10 coats on.
I don't see a need for the permalyn. If put on first it will seal the pores and prevent the Chambers from soaking in. It will also add a totally different material that the finish coats of Chambers must adhere to, the longitivity of that is questionable. If you use just chambers it will be the same product from the pores to the surface.
I would leave the permalyn on the shelf and just use the Chambers oil.
American horses of Arabian descent.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Chambers stock finish use over Permalyn sealer
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2025, 10:21:15 PM »
My .50 Beck is showing some wear and actually needs a re-finish.


Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V