Staining with dye stains like LMF

[rich pierce]

I almost never use dyes. I stained a maple stock with a combination of dyes and they didn’t mix well. I probably should have stained with one then the other but I mixed them before staining the stock. It was super blotchy. I managed to pull the stain out with alcohol after a while. Now I’m skittish!

I re-stained today and have the color I want. But I’d like it a little darker.
1) How long to wait before applications? 
2) Can I dilute the second coat a bit or will it fail to make it darker if I dilute it at all?

Just no experience! Thanks.

[recurve]

this is LMF cherry and Lancaster over yellow dye 
I used the trans tint honey amber ,let dry sand with fine scotch pad the used cherry and lancaster rubbed in scotch padded between layers then chambers oil several coats scotch pad after first coat  red maple wood




here is sugar maple with cherry and lancaster lmf then BLO several coats (no yellow dye)
I waited dry to the touch and rubbed the stain in

[Stoner creek]

TOO RED Recurve.

[rich pierce]

So the advice is it’s fine to mix and match but let dry in between, right?

What about applying a second coat which is diluted to get the stock a little darker? Nonsensical?

[reddogge]

I've used aniline dyes and yes, the more coats put on the darker it gets. You can dilute those with alcohol I wait until dry to re-coat.

[smart dog]

Hi Rich,
Add more dye and dilute it as you see fit.  I don't care for most of those stains because they are alcohol or xylol based and dry too fast, which makes getting an even color more difficult.  I use them to tint finish and touch ups but that is about it.  I prefer dyes dissolved in water.

dave

[alacran]

I like to use LMF Lancaster Maple after I'm done blushing the Ferric Nitrate.

[rich pierce]

I like to use LMF Lancaster Maple after I'm done blushing the Ferric Nitrate.

Looks great.

[Jim Kibler]

I never mix alcohol based aniline dyes, but rather just layer them and adjust the stock as the staining process progresses.  Nothing wrong with mixing ahead though.  For me this type of staining is just  something that developes as the process continues. 

[rich pierce]

I never mix alcohol based aniline dyes, but rather just layer them and adjust the stock as the staining process progresses.  Nothing wrong with mixing ahead though.  For me this type of staining is just  something that developes as the process continues.

Jim, good to know. On my first go-around I assumed 2 stains were compatible but I think they were not. One was Laurel Mountain Forge and the other was Jim Klein. It got out of hand as I tried to get an even color. Lack of experience. I think I’m getting it as the client wants it.

Dave, I’ll pick your brain on water based stains. When I first started, Birchwood Casey’s Colonial Red was pretty good.

[mgbruch]

When I was a kid, I would try to mix watercolor paints, to get a new color.  All I ever got was a muddy mess.  Many years ago, I tried the same thing with stains, and got the same results.  So I haven't mixed stains yet.  I experiment with a scrap from the blank, so I know how to get the color I want.  But I always let one stain dry completely before applying the next.


This was two coats of tannic acid, one coat of iron nitrate... blushed and rubbed back.  Then a coat of LMF Maple, followed by a coat of LMF Cherry.  And for the second (maybe third) coat of finish, I added some LMF Cherry to the oil.  Got the color I wanted.

[A.Merrill]

When I was a kid, I would try to mix watercolor paints, to get a new color.  All I ever got was a muddy mess.  Many years ago, I tried the same thing with stains, and got the same results.  So I haven't mixed stains yet.  I experiment with a scrap from the blank, so I know how to get the color I want.  But I always let one stain dry completely before applying the next.


This was two coats of tannic acid, one coat of iron nitrate... blushed and rubbed back.  Then a coat of LMF Maple, followed by a coat of LMF Cherry.  And for the second (maybe third) coat of finish, I added some LMF Cherry to the oil.  Got the color I wanted.

That looks great.   Al

[P.W.Berkuta]

Those stained and finished stocks look good BUT what happens later on down the road you need to do a touch-up, or a spot refinish? How do you know what to use when you used so many different stains originally?

[rich pierce]

Those stained and finished stocks look good BUT what happens later on down the road you need to do a touch-up, or a spot refinish? How do you know what to use when you used so many different stains originally?

Invoke the early Rolling Stones and “Paint it Black”.

Most of the time with maple I simply use AQF and it gives me what it gives me and I’m good with that. Some customers want a particular shade. Then it gets complicated. I doubt they fiddled with violin stains and varnish on this gun and something different on another gun back in the day (intended). Each gunsmith or shop probably had their standard products and processes.

[reddogge]

Those stained and finished stocks look good BUT what happens later on down the road you need to do a touch-up, or a spot refinish? How do you know what to use when you used so many different stains originally?

I've done that recently with two guns and didn't have a problem. One was walnut and originally stained with a dye not made any more (Robt. Ditchburn) but I didn't have too much of a problem matching color with a couple of dyes I had here. I do have quite a collection of aniline dyes on hand, some for military rifles. The other was aqua fortis on curly maple and it was pretty easy to match it up.

[Tumbledown]

I use alcohol based leather dye. This is Fiebrings, 7 parts Saddle Tan, 5 parts Oxblood, on plain maple. I mixed small samples (by tablespoons) and tested each on a piece I cut from the butt, until I got the desired shade. I won't do AF, as it can be unpredictable. (One pic is inside, the other under natural light outside.)


upload high quality photos

[Ron Scott]

This is a rifle I shipped yesterday stained with Alcohol based stain. The color was created with  red brown and honey yellow concentrates in Denatured Alcohol.

[Jakob]

This is a rifle I shipped yesterday stained with Alcohol based stain. The color was created with  red brown and honey yellow concentrates in Denatured Alcohol.

You know, you're really not making it easy for us mere mortals, Ron!

[t.caster]

I use a lot of the LMF stains, either by themselves or after A/F. I have NEVER gotten the color I want from just A/F.
I don't mix my stains together and apply as one. I put them on one layer at a time and built the color I or the customer requests. 1st layer is always honey maple.
I found LMF and Dangler/Klien stains don't mix well. Different mediums.

[Top Jaw]

Don’t know why I’m bothering to post here, because you probably can’t buy this stuff anymore. But 20 years ago there was a alcohol-based stain called Blue & Gray. Had a couple of Civil War soldiers on the label as I recall. May have been in a blue plastic bottle with a whitish label. Anyway. Tip Curtis used to carry it. I saw a rifle he had hanging up and asked what the stain was.  He showed me a bottle of this stuff.  it went on this Tennessee rifle in hard maple and it’s near perfect to my taste for an aniline stain. Dark brown with a subtle hint of chestnut red.  Looks like a couple deep coats of good AF stain IMHO.  (Sorry, not the greatest lighting).  I wish I had a bought more of it.  Perhaps you can still buy it. I did a Google search today and came up dry.

[rich pierce]

Great color for a Tennessee rifle, top jaw!

[Steeltrap]

Here's pictures of two flintlocks I recently built. The top pistol finish was Aquafortis, then two applications of LMF Cherry, and one application of LMF Brown Nutmeg, then Chambers finish.

The second pic of the rifle was just LMF Cherry with a Chambers finish.

The Aquafortis made the grain "Pop" more than just the LMF and Chambers. I still like the look of the rifle, but if I had a "do over" I'd apply and blush it first with Aquafortis.

FWIW

[rich pierce]

Great color on that pistol. I seldom use the LMF cherry alone, but sometimes on top of AQF.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Until a few years ago,I used Fiebing's leather dyes and LMF's alohol based stains on my maple longrifle stocks.  I was able to get nice stock colours, but within a few years of use in the field, the uv from the sun bleached out the hues that I wanted and left a colour that was not acceptable.  So IO use tannic acid and ferric nitrate now, and like Rich, I get what the solutions yield.  And I have to say, I prefer them to the stains I used prior.  If anything, tannic acid and ferric nitrate stains get better as years go by, rather than the converse.  Nice work Ron Scott!!