Rebuilding an old rifle build

[Bob Gerard]

Have you ever looked at a gun you may have built years ago and just shake your head and decide to strip it apart and restock it?
I’m wondering if it’s better to rebuild a gun that just isn’t up to snuff, (using the original hardware),  or keep it as it is, showing how much you have improved since then?

[Daniel Coats]

Bury it in the backyard.

[davec2]

Only tempted to rework one of my earlier guns to correct old mistakes. The rest of the early ones I have left alone. Here is the one I reworked

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=57919.msg582762#msg582762

[Bob Gerard]

Bury it in the backyard.

But I win competitions with it. 🤔

[sdilts]

I have my very first one hanging on the wall in my shop to remind me what not to do.

[rich pierce]

I’ve considered reshaping or restocking my first build. Then I toss that idea. It’s well made. Dang I had good eyes and hands back then; just didn’t know much. I keep it to show new builders what’s wrong with my first blank build. That’s a good teaching method that doesn’t upset anyone.

[Daniel Coats]

Bury it in the backyard.

But I win competitions with it. 🤔

Sorry Bob I misunderstood your post.

[Steeltrap]

My first "scratch" build was this pistol. I built this in 2011 without reading any books (1st mistake) and used shape and measurements from a single shot pistol I own that was made in the 1910's. There are a plethora of mistakes, breaks, RR hole drill broke out, a complete break of the piece in front of the lock....and those were just a few of the "mistakes".

I considered just tossing the stock and use the components to build another pistol, but I simply could not toss out that curly walnut piece. (First and last time I used a walnut...and one with a lot of curl. Maple = much easier)  Because I use this pistol for flintlock hunting it takes a lot of abuse just hanging on my hip for the days in the winter out in the woods.

It's very accurate and consistently "fires". And I do admire it with all its flaws.....because they are "my flaws". The re-do came out better than the blocky first time. Still don't like the "line" of the RR, but to fix that requires far too much work....and that may just turn out worse. 12" Dehass barrel.

Anyway.....1st pic = original build. 2nd pic = re-do.

[Howard]

If you signed it & don't like the way it looks just restock it or cut your name out & put someones name on it. Problem solved. Put Jim Parkers name on it if you will . He can scold me on this great idea!

[Dave B]

I took a night school class  at highschool  in Muzzleloading rifle building. bought parts from the instuctor thinking to build my self a Hawken. It shoots real well but is butt ugly and it is not even close to what a Hawken is to look like. I did some changes over the years like swapping out the Berks co. trigger guard and replacing my hand forged curled trigger  with a brass Hawken trigger guard and L&R long bar Hawken set triggers. I have won some matches with it. I keep toying with replacing the powder drum breach section for a patent breach now that the powder drum is starting to leak at the threads when cleaning.  Like Rich says it is what it is as a great teaching tool for those starting out. 

[Dave B]

I took a night school class  at highschool  in Muzzleloading rifle building. bought parts from the instuctor thinking to build my self a Hawken. It shoots real well but is butt ugly and it is not even close to what a Hawken is to look like. I did some changes over the years like swapping out the Berks co. trigger guard and replacing my hand forged curled trigger  with a brass Hawken trigger guard and L&R long bar Hawken set triggers. I have won some matches with it. I keep toying with replacing the powder drum breach section for a patent breach now that the powder drum is starting to leak at the threads when cleaning.  Like Rich says it is what it is as a great teaching tool for those starting out.

[Scota4570]

I recently refinished an early Kibler SMR with the longer barrel.  I installed a fresh liner.  I properly rust browned the barrel.  I heat blued the lock to the indigo blue color,  I rust browned the hardware.  The stock got a once over.  I removed the dents and dings.  Then re-stained.  Then a couple of coats of thin varnish.  Rubbed it back to take the varnish that was on the wood off.  I then used some linseed with dryer added.  It came out looking really sharp. 

I sold it to a good friend who had southern ancestry. He wants to get back into muzzle loading.  He was really happy.  He is very tall so the long barrel suits him better than me. 

As far as recycling parts from old builds and junk guns, absolutely. 

[reddogge]

I too have some skeletons in the closet. My first scratch built southern mtn. rifle wasn't perfect but it's so darn accurate I'm reluctant to mess with it. It has won a ton of prizes, hams, bottles of Yukon Jack, etc..

I did a trade gun in 1980 and for some unknown reason put brass tacks in it and grew to hate the gun. This year I removed the tacks and refinished the areas and now love the gun. In fact, it's my favorite.

This year I also reshaped the bloated lock panels on my Ithaca Hawken kit I did in 1977 and shortened the pull 1". Now it fits me and looks much better. 

[Bob Roller]

I made a Hawken representation that didn't look bad and used tacks with real brass heads.I wish I had kept it but needed the money for  two boys school clothes and other needed items.It had a Bill Large barrel 54 caliber and was 34x1 and 1/8 with bolster breech.100 grains of old DuPont 3fg got the ball past the front sight and down range with fine accuracy at a measured 100 yards using a Lyman 17A hooded sight with circular insert it stayed in the 10 ring.This sight was for test only and was replaced with a traditional fight with copper base and silver blade copied from one of Tom Dawson's originals.
Bob Roller

[wmrike]

I have one sitting in the corner of my office that i did nearly 50 years ago.  It's my first gun and a basketful of miscues.  Actually, from the lock forward, the workmanship and design is pretty cracking.  I've had it in mind to transplant a piece of maple to the back end of the gun, allowing wood for a new lock.  I've talked myself into believing it will be a whole lot easier than a whole new build.  We'll see.

[recurve]

I now see the mistakes I made on my first build(and 2nd) and wonder if restocking would fix them or is it my vanity trying to erase the past
They shoot just fine, but look a little rough, a beginner's building progress(or lack of)

[t.caster]

You'll find it challenging to line up all the pin holes in your brass parts with new holes in your stock. So just plan to miss the existing holes. You should have tabs large enough to do that.

[Rmjchas]

Yes, I have.   I had one build that was one disaster after another.  I used a friends bandsaw that I thought was adjusted properly--it was cutting on the line I could see but the blade drifted and took off too much on the other side of the stock; so much so I went from a lancaster profile to a lehigh profile.     Then the ramrod hole drifted and went through the forestock.  The chromium trioxide stain I used turned this piece of wood light brown with a definite green cast (never used that stain again...)

After living with this abomination for a few years I said screw it, got another stock blank and started over.   I was much happier with the result and still use it for hunting deer.

[rsells]

Bob,
I had an old customer call me out of the blue a few months ago and asked me if I would like to have a rifle I sold him back in 1978.  It was the first rifle I built from scratch for me.  I shot it a bunch for four years and let him talk me out of it.  He said that none of his kids were interesting in shooting, and he wondered if I would like to have it back.  I told him that it was my #1 and would like to purchase it from him.  I met the customer and looked at the rifle, and it was exactly like it was when I sold it to him.  I tried to pay him for the rifle, but he would not take any money.  He said it should be back in my hands.  The rifle felt great when shouldered.  I looked it over and seen a couple of things I should have done differently when I first built the rifle.  I have had it for about 6 months now and have fought the desire to correct my errors.  I have finally decided to not do any corrections to my #1 rifle.  It feels great and it reminds how much my work has improved over time.  The thoughts to correct the errors jump on me now and again, but in my heart I think it should remain as built.  Just my thoughts and my decision!!
                                                                 Roger Sells

[whetrock]

Bob,
I had an old customer call me out of the blue a few months ago and asked me if I would like to have a rifle I sold him back in 1978.  It was the first rifle I built from scratch for me.  I shot it a bunch for four years and let him talk me out of it.  He said that none of his kids were interesting in shooting, and he wondered if I would like to have it back.  I told him that it was my #1 and would like to purchase it from him.  I met the customer and looked at the rifle, and it was exactly like it was when I sold it to him.  I tried to pay him for the rifle, but he would not take any money.  He said it should be back in my hands.  The rifle felt great when shouldered.  I looked it over and seen a couple of things I should have done differently when I first built the rifle.  I have had it for about 6 months now and have fought the desire to correct my errors.  I have finally decided to not do any corrections to my #1 rifle.  It feels great and it reminds how much my work has improved over time.  The thoughts to correct the errors jump on me now and again, but in my heart I think it should remain as built.  Just my thoughts and my decision!!
                                                                 Roger Sells

Well said, Roger.
I feel the same about my #1. I built it while away from home for school, and then brought it home when my young wife and I came to visit at Christmas. Gave it to my dad as a Christmas gift. He cried. It was an awesome experience.
But the rifle itself? It does shoot straight and is mechanically sound, but artistically it's a mess. Made a couple of fatal mistakes and had to glue wood back on the lock panel and start over with the inlet. Had to glue wood under the forearm because I cut too deep with a bandsaw. Hinge gaps are so bad that the box looks more like a hinge for a shed door. And then there's the engraving! One place I got off the line so bad that I just cut another line right beside it, so it has a double line in that spot. Carving is equally bad, done with dull tools.

A few years ago dad gave the rifle back to me (after having owned it for 30 years). I look at it now and see all the mistakes, but I wouldn't change a thing.

Wife always tells me, "Don't go back. Only go forward". For a guy who struggles with perfectionism anyway, it's essential advice. I always try to fix mistakes as they occur, and while a project is in process I happily remake parts as needed if the first effort isn't what I wanted. And I'd certainly go back and fix a mechanical mistake at any time if that was the issue. But as far as artistic issues are concerned, once something is done to the level of craftsmanship I can accomplish at the moment, then it's done. I don't go back. If I started going back I'd never accomplish anything new.

I'm not suggesting that the rest of you guys need see things the way I do. Just speaking for myself.

[deano]

I am in the middle of doing the same thing with a .54 gun I built in the early '80s. I remember winning a few competitions with that Smoothrifle. However, I remember that the ignition was slow, so perhaps I was the only guy shooting a smoothbore?

Well I have it torn apart, and replacing the touch hole liner, polishing the Chamber Roundfaced English lock, polishing out rust that developed over time from laying around. It's remarkable with some of the bonehead short cuts I took, combined with some nice architecture I stumbled into. My Dad bought the Maple board for me one Christmas, Ed Rayl made the long Octagon to Round barrel, and of course the Chambers lock.

If I get all the gremlins out of it like I hope I may actually take it into the Deer Woods this year.

Ken