Early European Rifle with Brass Patchbox

[Tanselman]

A somewhat short, European style "jaeger" rifle was posted that looks German to me with an early brass patchbox and relief carving. We always think the hinged brass patchbox originated in America, but this one makes you think about it. I pulled two images off the internet to show the brass box and back side of gun. The gun is signed "Joseph Mon" and has a .56 caliber bore. The rifle is at auction in Canada on this site:

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/joseph-mon-percussion-target-rifle-antique-36-c-86701f04f0?objectID=200867139&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=97b697cf80ad665ca888827b2b19471e

Shelby Gallien

[Eric Kettenburg]

I had a wender years ago made by a guy in Wurzburg/Wirzburg or however it was/is spelled.  This type of furnishing (not the box but the furnishings and decoration) is apparently very typical to that area, I believe Bavarian? 

There are a few different hypotheses one could come up with here.  In no way do I think this is American, so I personally go into it with that perspective.  I also don't think this is a particularly early piece and it very well may be 1770s or 1780s.  By that point it is **possible** that an American rifle with a brass box had been viewed by the maker.  It's also possible that this brass box was added later, again after an owner of the rifle had seen an American rifle with a brass box.

I suppose it's also possible that the gunstocker here just came up with this on his own, but given the absolute dearth of other German pieces with a similar setup, I find that incredibly unlikely.  It certainly is very cool, whatever the story!  Would definitely be interesting to really examine it in-hand.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Boy their pictures kind of suck for trying to zoom in.

The percussion conversion was surely done in Europe, imho, so it was still in Europe at that point.

I think the box is an add-on and kind of suspect that originally it may not have had a box at all.  That is someone common for rifles of this style and area, in my limited knowledge. 

Where the heck did Chris Immel go?  Been a long time.

[Tanselman]

I sent an e-mail to the Maynards auction house in Canada this morning requesting a high-resolution photograph of the front side of the butt, so we can see details of the patchbox and its surround more clearly, enlarge it without going fuzzy immediately, and see how well it was made and installed. If/when I get it, I will post it here.

Shelby Gallien

[Hudnut]

For what it is worth, 71 cents US = 1 Canadian dollar...

[alacran]

I don't have it with me right now, but in Shumway's compiled articles Jaeger book there is a relic rifle towards the back of the book that shows a possible patch box mortise. Shumway speculates that it may be a link to the American patchbox.

[Tanselman]

The auction house sent a high-resolution picture of the patchbox. When enlarged, it appears to be a later addition to the gun as suggested earlier by Eric.

Shelby Gallien

[Eric Kettenburg]

Well that certainly clarifies things, but nevertheless it's still pretty cool.  Quite a chunky little porker of a rifle!  Box is clearly an add-on but a couple of questions (to my mind) remain:  when was it added, and where was it added?  That percussion conversion is most definitely European, so the piece was almost certainly still in Europe somewhere in the 1820s or 1830s +or -.  Was the box added in Europe by someone who had seen an American rifle?  Or - since it's now in Canada - was it brought here post-conversion and the box added here in North America?

I'm also wondering if the two separate little brass pieces down against the buttplate below the longer box side pieces are different work than the actual box and side pieces?  They look 'different' to me, and typical of the furnishings and era and area where this rifle was originally made, so I wonder if they are remnants of something else like perhaps a brass wood box surround, or maybe just scavenged from another piece etc?  Don;t know but they look to be 'parts' that were not part of the construction of this box and side pieces.

[spgordon]

When enlarged, it appears to be a later addition to the gun as suggested earlier by Eric.

Nice diagnosis, Eric! Always impressive to have a hypothesis confirmed so quickly (and positively) by the physical evidence.

[Tanselman]

The small pieces of brass scroll work along the butt plate where new side leaves are terminated are mounted with screws and appear to mimic a similar brass scroll plate on the reverse side, same location running along edge of butt plate and mounted with screws. A related piece of brass scroll work decorates the lower edge of cheekpiece and is also mounted with screws. There appears to be a cast piece of filler material in the brass butt plate just below/behind where the lid closes over it, that seems to indicate something needed a cutout in the butt plate in that area in the gun's original configuration... sliding lid?

While the patchbox finial is a bit strange, the side leaves look American to me with center ball and horizontal outer edge scrolls that form a piercing... a bit like some MD gun side leaves as well as others.

Shelby Gallien