Softening The Edges on Carving

[bluenoser]

Well folks, it seems I am in need of a bit of guidance.

I have built a few longrifles over the years, but my current project is the first that will be carved.  It is an early Lancaster and the carving will be low relief and incised and relatively simple in design.  My inspiration for the butt carving is a rifle by Nicholas Beyer.  My dilemma has to do with the edges of the carving and whether or not to soften them (lightly round them over). I am not referring to modelling, which would have the effect of softening portions of the edge.   In looking at photos of originals and contemporary longrifles it appears to me the edges of the carving are usually softened.  I realize that, in the case of the originals, the softening could be at least partly due to handling.

I took another look at Wallace Gusler’s and Jack Brooks excellent videos and reread the pertinent sections of The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle, Recreating the American Longrifle and The Gunsmith of Greenville County.  With one exception, they all seem to lean toward maintaining crisp edges on the carving.  The one exception is step 3 item 5 on page 134 of Recreating …, which shows the edge being rounded over.  I also took another look at Acer’s tutorial and, although he does not specifically address softening the edges, he seems to be doing that – although I could be confusing modeling with softening.

I have experimented with crisp as-stabbed edges and rounded edges in my practice carving and find the crisp edges to be too mechanical and harsh in appearance.  It seems to me they would also likely be prone to chipping in use.  On practice carvings with rounded edges, I have been using 220 grit sandpaper to do the rounding - which appears to be a less than ideal way of accomplishing the task.

After that  ong winded lead in, here are my questions.

1.   Should the edges be softened by slightly rounding them over, or left sharp?
2.   If the edges should be softened, what is the best way of doing it?

Your guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Laurie

[Tom Currie]

I think your answer is in what type of build you attempting. Some guys build them to be " new" like they would have come right from the shop. In this case you would want your carving sharp.
 A good number of builders today are mildly aging there builds whch then you might want to soften the edges a bit, these builds usually have some darkened brass and some level of aging on the barrels also.

If I were softening carving I might burnish, rub down with some burlap or even a mild scotchbright pad.

There is no right or wrong on this subject.

[Acer Saccharum]

I have much respect for A Martin's and Mark Wheland's work which looks to be some of the best 'worn carving' look out there. Running your fingers over the carving, you barely feel it. So I think part of the aged look is to start with carving that is not very high to begin with. The outline of the carving may have been stabbed in or v-tooled in, is visible as dark, dark because the wood fibers are broken, and thus absorb more color than uncut wood.

This is my attempt at an aged finish. I scrubbed this with Scotchbrite after staining. I was trying for a slightly used look. Top coats of varnish mixed with burnt umber and lamobklack, then rubbed back.

Aged finish is a science and an art, I have come to believe, and I don't know how to do it yet. 

Tom

[Ed Wenger]

Laurie,

Almost every original rifle you will see has a "soft" look to the carving.  That's most likely a result, as you pointed out, of the handling of the gun over the years.  I think a lot would depend on the look you're trying to achieve.  There are some beautiful rifles (contemporary) with both "crisper" and "softer" edges.

If you want a crisp edge, stabbing, or laying the V tool away from the carving (if that makes sense) will give you more of that vertical edge.  Using a V tool, especially if you lean it toward the carving, lessens the sharp edge.  You can also get this effect if stabbing using different angles.

Lastly, using a fine Scotchbright like Tom pointed out, or high quality very fine steel wool will soften the edges.  I usually do that before I stain.  Hope that helps...

Ed

[bluenoser]

Thanks for your responses.

I probably should have been clearer in my initial post.  I lean toward a slightly aged or well-used look, but well short of an antiqued look.  I like my guns to appear as though they have been carried and well cared for over a period of decades.  The brass will be slightly tarnished – more so at the muzzle cap and I hope to attain a slightly worn finish on the ironwork, but definitely no pitting or heavily rusted areas.

Your responses lead me to believe I have been overly aggressive in trying to soften the edges.  Kind of like shooting squirrels with a 12 gauge.  Not much left for the pot! 

Tom, I will try burnishing the edges.  As I think of it, that makes a lot more sense than going at it with fine sandpaper.

Acer my friend, you do know how to do it.  You just may not have attained the level of perfection you are striving for.  The example you posted is a good representation of what I hope to achieve.  My carving tends to be quite low in relief and I am experimenting with an incised border to give the illusion of more depth.  It seems to me, the incised border should facilitate the aging process by providing a place for the darkening agent to collect.  I will go to Allen Martin’s website and try to find some examples of Mark Wheland’s work on the blog site.

Ed, I use gouges to stab in.  I have tried a V tool, but was not particularly pleased with the result.  My opinion might change with practice.  If I read correctly, stabbing in while laying the gouge away from the carving will result in an undercut – as recommended by Peter Alexander.  I have been stabbing straight in.  I will take your advice and try stabbing in with the tool tilted slightly toward the carving to lessen the sharp edge.  That is an interesting approach I had not considered.  My gut feeling tells me to avoid using steel wool before the aquafortis.  Have you had any problems with freckles caused by bits of steel wool left in the wood?  Doing some of the softening before staining sounds like a good approach to me.

Thanks again for the advice.  It’s back to the practice block for me! 

Laurie

[Acer Saccharum]

Some soft Wheland carvings:
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/09/mark-wheland.html
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vb_Yo_ELC48/SrQiByYP1OI/AAAAAAAARtI/fw9ozj0Sgko/s1600-h/Wheland+10_ret.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vb_Yo_ELC48/SrQhtQDPx6I/AAAAAAAARso/h3iut7tSWkE/s1600-h/Wheland+06_ret.jpg

[Dphariss]

Well folks, it seems I am in need of a bit of guidance.

I have built a few longrifles over the years, but my current project is the first that will be carved.  It is an early Lancaster and the carving will be low relief and incised and relatively simple in design.  My inspiration for the butt carving is a rifle by Nicholas Beyer.  My dilemma has to do with the edges of the carving and whether or not to soften them (lightly round them over). I am not referring to modelling, which would have the effect of softening portions of the edge.   In looking at photos of originals and contemporary longrifles it appears to me the edges of the carving are usually softened.  I realize that, in the case of the originals, the softening could be at least partly due to handling.

I took another look at Wallace Gusler’s and Jack Brooks excellent videos and reread the pertinent sections of The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle, Recreating the American Longrifle and The Gunsmith of Greenville County.  With one exception, they all seem to lean toward maintaining crisp edges on the carving.  The one exception is step 3 item 5 on page 134 of Recreating …, which shows the edge being rounded over.  I also took another look at Acer’s tutorial and, although he does not specifically address softening the edges, he seems to be doing that – although I could be confusing modeling with softening.

I have experimented with crisp as-stabbed edges and rounded edges in my practice carving and find the crisp edges to be too mechanical and harsh in appearance.  It seems to me they would also likely be prone to chipping in use.  On practice carvings with rounded edges, I have been using 220 grit sandpaper to do the rounding - which appears to be a less than ideal way of accomplishing the task.

After that  ong winded lead in, here are my questions.

1.   Should the edges be softened by slightly rounding them over, or left sharp?
2.   If the edges should be softened, what is the best way of doing it?

Your guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Laurie

Unless you KNOW HOW to make it look right putting wear on the properly you should probably leave it alone.
A new rifle in 1770 looked like a new rifle. If used for 5 years it looks 5 years old. It takes quite a bit of use to wear down the carving under and behind the cheekpiece. So look at the Antes swivel breech. Lots of use and its walnut to boot. The buttstock carving is still pretty good. The wrist carving is largely gone. But this rifle was probably used for 50 years, perhaps even till the Civil War era.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

Unless you KNOW HOW to make it look right putting wear on the properly you should probably leave it alone.

That's like saying "if you don't know how to build a long rifle, you probably shouldn't try."

I don't know how to age a gun, but I'm gonna learn how to do it. Give it my best. Maybe they will look like $#@*, maybe they will look great, but I won't know until I learn. That's what this is about, Dan. Learning, not discouraging someone from doing what they have in mind.

Tom

[Jim Kibler]

Bluenoser,

Here's my advice.  There's nothing wrong with breaking the sharp edge of carving.  Sometimes like you mentioned a sharp edge can be pretty fragile.  This breaking of the edge is really quite subtle, however.  There's times I will actually use a skew or a knife and very carefully bevel off the edge of carving to clean up the edge and make it more durable.  This is usually pretty close to the angle of the original edge.  To soften the corner I am prone to using some worn out 320 grit paper or maybe even just scotchbrite.  It's all pretty subtle if you are carving an "as new" gun.  Oftentimes hard sharp corners can be a good thing in creating effective carving. 

My advice if you are just learning to carve is to not get too caried away with rounding and wearing down the carving.  This is of course just an opinion and suggestion.  I think it's a good thing to learn to carve in an as new manner before attempting carving with a heavily worn appearance.  Carving on originals can vary from being very crisp to nearly completely worn away.  This will of course depend on where the carving is and what the gun has experienced. 

It seems there is a trend (which I take part in to some degree) to add appeal to a gun by creating artificial wear and finish patination these days.  I often find this appealing, but I also find it refreshing to see guns without this that stand on their own.  An example would be the Williamsburg made guns.  There is a part of me that thinks it would be a good thing if more concentration was given to the technical aspects of gunbuilding rather than attempting to increase a guns appeal by "aging".  I guess like all things there should be a balance.  Finally (after rambling on I'm sure) it goes without saying that it should be up to the individual to decide the approach taken.  Whatever a person likes and enjoys should be the route the take.  There's room for everybody.

[Acer Saccharum]

I will use a scraper to soften edges. I have many shapes and sizes of scrapers.
Instead of carving a contour, I use the scraper to mould or define a form.

When I think about how an antique gun got to the condition it is in, I realize that the stock has worn through abrasive action. Grit on the hands, rubbed with a cloth, occasionally scrubbed clean, wear and tear, all lend a hand in eroding and polishing the original surface down. This is why I think sandpaper is useful...it replicates the ravages of time if used appropriately. The end result should be a highly polished surface. All the dings and scratches, repairs and cracks must be in already, then the wood polished to a high sheen.

I am just learning about this, so I am making this up as I go.

Tom

[bluenoser]

I appreciate the guidance each and every one is offering.

Dan, I have to agree with Acer.  Where would each of us be if we had not tried new things and strove to improve our skill sets.  I think the best approach is to take every opportunity to benefit from the experience and advice of others and practice, practice, practice.  That’s one of the great things about this group.  There are so many talented and generous individuals who are willing to offer guidance and encouragement to those who are less experienced or trying something new.  I am certain I speak for all the less experienced builders and would-be builders when I say thank you for your input.  I may not always agree with your point of view, but I respect and appreciate it.

It appears this thread has expanded to cover a broader range of options than I had envisioned.  That is a good thing!  My intent never was to duplicate well-worn carving as so often found on originals – although I would certainly like to add that to my skill set.  It was to slightly soften what I (quite possibly erroneously) viewed as the harsh and potentially fragile sharp right angle of as-stabbed carving.  Perhaps that goes back to my years as a professional cabinetmaker- now retired.  It would be a very rare occurrence when we did not slightly soften all sharp edges.  If I am successful, the finished product will show an amount of wear similar to that of the longrifle I built in the early to mid 1980’s and have carried many miles since.  The brass is dark (almost black at the muzzle) the browning on the ironwork is worn in places and the stock is worn and stained in the usual places.  It has become an old and reliable friend and the appearance is just the way I like it.  It might not be entirely architecturally correct but it has cut a few cards and popped the heads off more than a few ruffed grouse over the years.  I don’t have another 25 – 30 years to naturally develop that patina on my current build – even if I wanted to take that route.

I do believe I have started to ramble – again! 

Thanks again. I look forward to your input.
Laurie

[Ed Wenger]

Laurie,

Sorry I didn't get back sooner, on the road again...  I still go back and forth between stabbing and using a V tool.  I also had less than great results when I first started using a V tool, but with practice, it became easier.  I honestly don't know which method I like better at this point and usually use both methods on a design.  I thick stabbing helps with small radius curves where you can use a round, or curved gouge.

I've never had any problems with freckles and AF, although many folks raise that fear.  I use a high quality, very fine steel wool from Wood Crafters and clean the area with a tooth brush.  Also, before I stain (AF or stain), the carving is colored with diluted stain (I use LMF Honey Maple) which is good for identifying problems. 

Ed

[Acer Saccharum]

Ed, I stab very tight inside and outside curves. The parting tool allows me the most adjustment of the curves. If I don't like the curve, I can pare a little wood off to get the curve where I like it.

This points out the differences in carving practices by different builders. You should carve the way that feels most natural to you. Also attending a seminar at WKU with one of the masters will set your mind on fire.

I love to burn brain cells.

Tom

[Ed Wenger]

Tom,

You must have ESPN or something...  One of the biggest reasons I gave the V tool a try is because of your many endorsements of the method, and like I said, I've really grown to like it.  You were in the back of my mind when I was writing my previous response, scary!, haha........

Ed

[rich pierce]

He doesn't even have a TV.

[bluenoser]

You all have been very kind to offer advice to this would-becarver.  Now, if you would be so good as to critique my progress I would be most appreciative.

I have set aside the sandpaper and completely relied on sharp pointy objects.  There are mistakes and a lot of room for improvement, but it's a whole lot purtier than my first attempt.  You couldn't drink it pretty. 

The first photo is as carved and scraped.



For the second photo I threw on some AF and a single coat of Linspeed.  A pretty crude 10 minute job, but I think it gives a better impression of what the final product would look like.




This piece of maple is fairly soft with a lot of reaction wood and shaky grain under the small scroll.  You will no doubt see the two chip-outs under the scroll.    It's actually good it was like that, because it forced me to try different ways of paring away the background. 


Thanks again
Laurie