Author Topic: Rifle slings  (Read 19651 times)

The other DWS

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2010, 04:24:42 AM »
Just an additional thought, on a military musket or fusil, smoothbore fowling piece, trade gun, basically any smoothbore long arm; a fabric, leather, or metal for that matter, band around the barrel and forestock would matter little since the were generally pointed relatively instinctively rather than properly aimed.  On a rifle where one actually uses sights except in a quick snap shot on moving game it would be a different story

Offline Artificer

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2010, 07:08:50 AM »
Acer,

I'm sorry if it seemed I meant you brought up hammer stalls.  What I found interesting about your question was another possible reason for a hole in the front of the trigger guard.  Then I meant to ask about the use of hammer stalls in the early guns as a separate question.
Gus

Offline Captchee

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2010, 04:24:05 PM »
Just an additional thought, on a military musket or fusil, smoothbore fowling piece, trade gun, basically any smoothbore long arm; a fabric, leather, or metal for that matter, band around the barrel and forestock would matter little since the were generally pointed relatively instinctively rather than properly aimed.  On a rifle where one actually uses sights except in a quick snap shot on moving game it would be a different story

 I could see this with a military musket as  the  basic order of the day was  simply put as much lead  in the direction of the enemy as quick as possible .
 However past that  a  sling that went around a  barrel would complicate the sights even more on a smooth bore .
 In reality I would have to say that  its probably very close to 50/50 on smoothies with rear sights . Signs of having  a rear sight or at least some kind of rear reference .
  This combined with normally very low front sight , would complicate things  even more  concerning a sling then  it would on a rifle .

 Military wise .  Sometimes  things are more a  mater of tradition then of necessity  use ..
 While the more modern types  slings  used by today’s military ., can actually be useful and desirable . It was not that long ago that  the sling , while  provided , was  for the most part , from my   military experience  removed .
In fact remove very quickly . Not to see the light of day again until such time as  a turn in of the weapon  was required .

 When it comes to the button attachments . I often wonder if this really wasn’t more of a type of quick release  then a permanent  attachment. If so then the sling could very well have been of the type the wrapped around the barrel . Thus  also being able to be removed very quickly if  the need arose .
 Now this of course would not be true if we  accept that the button was screwed through the leather  of the sling .
 However   if the actual slings  were made  to have a more solid leather  end .  The end also having a hole with a slot . The sling would still stay secure in the carry  and be quickly removable.
 So it could be that  these buttons we see have been simply screwed in deeper , to the point of resting flush with the wood  , so as to  keep the button from so easily being snagged .

 It could also be that the hole in the TG of many pieces  are very much this same thing . Just an option . IE  if a person was on a long trip  in a  relatively safe area where the gun  would not need to be at the constant ready . A sling could be attached .
 Now if that attachment was  considered part of the sling  and not part of the rifle . Like we do today . Then it would explain why  there is so few examples with  mounted swivels .
 Basically when the sling was removed . The swivel stayed with the sling

 Again , im just  talking here  and have no real  period evidence  
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 04:26:42 PM by Captchee »

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2010, 05:00:33 PM »
I would agree on your line of thinking, Captchee, that the sling could be for carrying while on the road to have both hands free. But the sling would come off for hunting or fighting.

Consider that to tie a sling around the barrel, the ramrod is essentially out of service. You'll get it out, but not back in again without taking the sling off.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 05:02:03 PM by Acer Saccharum »
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Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2010, 06:52:15 PM »
Consider that to tie a sling around the barrel, the ramrod is essentially out of service. You'll get it out, but not back in again without taking the sling off.

Well, unless you tied the sling around the gun right at/over ramrod ferrule.

Randy Hedden
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2010, 07:10:05 PM »
How many...............??? On the head of what.......??

I betcha they weren't to different than us.  They tried lots of dumb things and some worked in some situations.  The short german and English sporting guns of the mid 18th century seemed to often have slings with swivels fore and buttons aft..... As Acer and others said and I can attest, having a sling with swivels at the TG and top thimble on a 44" barrel rifle is just ungainly!!  If I were ridinga horse in a safe area maybe......but not comfortably.... Now when I have to drag a deer and need both hands...and I feel pretty safe from hostiles (Cause my hunting buddy has my back???) I can reach in my haversack and grab my trusty slip on sling or a buffaloe tug, or a piece of string and put the rifle over my back... and try not to drag it in the dirt or fall on it...

The more I think about it I bet slings were used mostly for horseback riding............. ;D
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The other DWS

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2010, 07:14:16 PM »
FWIW (probably not much) In the past I have seen a number of reenactors shooting at live fire matches (and we know how historically accurate reenactors can be :D) using slings created by wrapping a thin wet rawhide thong over the barrel and around the middle rr ferrule and sewing a strap, blanket strip, or long narrow fingerwoven strip which was attached by another rawhide thong to the trigger guard loop. the main down side was it made barrel removal for end of season cleaning a problem
 Somewhere somehow they had some sort of documentation for this or the NWTA "authenticity committee" would not have allowed it--and it was commonly accepted
This was for a simple carry strap.  the thin rawhide over the barrel did not seem to mess with their sight picture too much---they always beat me thats for sure.  Oh this was mostly for early french and brit fusil/trade gun smoothbores
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 07:15:41 PM by The other DWS »

Offline Stophel

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2010, 08:35:17 PM »
I think the slip-on/tie-on "hasty sling" is a very modern idea that people want to project back into the past ("they MUST have done it....right?).  If you wanted a sling, you put on proper sling swivels.

I have pretty much weaned myself from the use of a sling.  I don't really miss them now.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Daryl

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2010, 09:00:03 PM »
Both of these guns have sling swivels. The top one a stud rear and front a 'hanger'. The bottom one, a rear button and front 'hanger'.  Most Jaegers (full stock) had a 'hanger' front swivel as well, with rear button. Both systems allow easy installation or a sling as well as being easily removed.


Offline Captchee

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2010, 03:30:02 AM »

 
Quote
Consider that to tie a sling around the barrel, the ramrod is essentially out of service. You'll get it out, but not back in again without taking the sling off.

 im not to sure about that . back in the 1970 i had a CVA mountain rifle . i also had one of those CVA slings .  it  looped around the barrel and  then had a  section the folded around the butt plate .  never had any real issues will pulling the RR . for that mater shooting with it on .
 she was a great hunting setup ..

 As to the  this type of sling being modern ?
 I think its probably  just as hard to prove its modern as it is to prove its  period .

 Simply put though , there has to be a reason  why so many rifles  show rear attachments , yet no  front attachment .
 I would agree that  some  originals , show   replacement of the forestock .
 Maybe that replacement was do to  not having a hard mounted  sling lug .
 On the other had . Maybe the entire rifle was restocked at some time ??
 What im getting at is  this is an area that  to either prove or disprove  we have to assume .
Assuming simply means ,., we don’t know  really one way or the other

 We have came along way in our documentation . So maybe in another 10-20 years . If  information keeps growing .  This subject also will become more clear .
 Who is to say

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2010, 05:22:59 AM »
Consider that to tie a sling around the barrel, the ramrod is essentially out of service. You'll get it out, but not back in again without taking the sling off.

Well, unless you tied the sling around the gun right at/over ramrod ferrule.

Randy Hedden

True, but after a two mile walk thru the woods, with all the strain and movement, tell me the sling will stay put on the thimble. You would have to bind it with linen or rawhide to make it stay, methinks, unless you had a special thimble to keep the wrap in place. I see no evidence of that.

Daryl, I mean long guns, not those short barreled thingies, which always seem to have sling mounts fore and aft.
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jwh1947

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2010, 06:39:01 AM »
Dr. Tim has a picture of what a few of the boys use around here (PA) that insist on a sling.  Right there it is.

Online Eric Laird

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2010, 04:12:33 PM »
Another PC solution to deer/firearm issue is a tumpline or burdenstrap - use it to drag (or even carry) the deer and your hands are free to carry the weapon. Just a thought.
Eric
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Daryl

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2010, 06:36:13 PM »
 
Quote
Acer -Sack,
Daryl, I mean long guns, not those short barreled thingies, which always seem to have sling mounts fore and aft.

Which is why I mentioned the same or similar front swivel being used on some full stocked guns- with buttons on the rear- ie: Jaegers.  Also, the full stocked British guns had front swivels as well. These could easily be made to grace the lines of an American pea shooter. :D
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 06:38:24 PM by Daryl »

Offline Stophel

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2010, 08:20:03 PM »


 Simply put though , there has to be a reason  why so many rifles  show rear attachments , yet no  front attachment .

Actually, I haven't seen very many American rifles with rear sling attachments at all!
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Joe S

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2010, 01:31:56 AM »
I use a sling with my rifle, both on foot and on horseback.  It has a 44” barrel, and I would say ungainly is a fair description, however it is practical enough that I keep on using it.  It is particularly nice on horseback, as sometimes you need two hands to keep your pony in line.  Got to watch out for those tree branches though.

The sling has loops on both ends for sliding over the barrel and stock.  It has to be removed for shooting, but that takes just a few seconds.  I have no idea how PC this is, but I can assure you that it is a reasonable thing to do.

Offline Captchee

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2010, 03:51:41 PM »


 Simply put though , there has to be a reason  why so many rifles  show rear attachments , yet no  front attachment .

Actually, I haven't seen very many American rifles with rear sling attachments at all!


 got through shumways rifles of colonial America.  Both volume and you will se a number with drilled TG’s.
 I also want so say . Though its been a while since I sat down and really looked through it . But I want to say Torskin link also profiled a couple frenchies in his book

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2010, 07:52:20 PM »
There are drilled holes in the guards on quite a number of guns. Few of these show front attachments. I agree.

What are the holes for/from?

1)re-used hardware
2)attachment for sling
3)attachment for cow's knee or hammer stall

We don't know.

Tom
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Daryl

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2010, 08:15:10 PM »
HA! - that's to hanging a feather, for wind judgment. ;D

Offline Swampwalker

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Re: Rifle slings
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2010, 08:25:20 PM »
I would go with the re-used harware theory - it would be interesting to pull the triggerguards on a sub-group of these, and see if there was evidence on the tabs of re-use, such as plugged and re-drilled pin holes.