"Express" sights......opinions, experiences?

[Skychief]

I am interested in hearing more about the use of what has been called Express sights.   These are rear sights with VERY shallow V's, usually with a bead front sight (though I expect one could use a blade too).

Can groups be shot with these shallow V rears, as small as other open sight arrangements?   Or, are they mainly used for quicker sight acquisition (while not shooting as precise)?  In other words, how much precision is lost when using the Express sights?

Your insights (excuse the pun) are appreciated.

My eyes will turn 41 years old this year along with the rest of me, and, they are not what they used to be......harder to line up slivers of daylight on each side of a front blade.   Especially in the woods or with any speed!:-\

Thanks all, Skychief.

[Daryl]

I am interested in hearing more about the use of what has been called Express sights.   These are rear sights with VERY shallow V's, usually with a bead front sight (though I expect one could use a blade too).
I've used several on several different guns, and always preferred a bead front sight, of varying diameter.


Can groups be shot with these shallow V rears, as small as other open sight arrangements?   Or, are they mainly used for quicker sight acquisition (while not shooting as precise)?  In other words, how much precision is lost when using the Express sights?

How does a 6 shot group at 200 yards of 1 1/4" wide by 3 1/2" tall sound?


Your insights (excuse the pun) are appreciated.

My eyes will turn 41 years old this year along with the rest of me, and, they are not what they used to be......harder to line up slivers of daylight on each side of a front blade.   Especially in the woods or with any speed!:-\

This shooting was done with 59 yard old eyes that need glasses to see clearly.


Thanks all, Skychief.

Here's 2 shots off the bags at 100 meters using Express sights as described - same gun that shot the 1 1/4" X 3 1/2" group at 200 yards.



Here's a drawing of the sight picture.



Here's the sight picture in dim light, as in the bush.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I agree that you've done some really fine shooting with express sights, and they do not reduce accuracy or precision.  But " Here's 2 shots off the bags at 100 meters"...I'm counting a few more than 2 shots here.  Zup wi dat?

[The other DWS]

He said he needed glasses didn't he?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I expect that he's been typing faster than he's been thinking...or vise-versa.  Don't be fooled by the glasses thing...he's still difficult to beat.  Evidence- check out the two hundred yard postal match results.

[Daryl]

Hmmm - if you look closely, you'll see a bunch of the fellow's .308 diameter holes, shot with a Remington .30/06, using factory ammo and a 3-9X scope,  along with lead smears around the 2 .684" holes that I put on the target with the .69.  They are the joining holes just above and cutting the 10 ring at 1 o'clock.  Maybe I should have aimed at 6 o'clock, instead of 10AM?

[KNeilson]

Skychief, fwiw, I have 55 yr old eyes with 30 yrs of industrial welding on them, also a newbie to muzzloading. I was having difficulty seeing period with a barleycorn front and notch rear. When I could see a light on each side a ghost or double image on the front would appear giving me grief. Search for the posts that have been written on this subject here, there is a ton of great info. In any event the two targets below showed what "express" type sights did for my ability to hit the target (at 50Yds)...     Kerry
   barleycorn and notch 5 shot group 50G  3Fpowder
     express type,2 - 5 shot groups, one with 50G 3F powder, One with 60G .

[Leatherbelly]

   Young bucks!

[Skychief]

KNeilson and Daryl (and others with Express sights),

Will any of you care to post some closeup photos of the sights please?   I find them and their possible use very tempting.  Thanks much!

BTW: I love to see the target pictures you guys have provided...that's what I am looking for.

[beleg2]

Hi,
I made a express sight like these ones on one of my rifles and it makes me shot much better.
I could not see the sight of my rifle well enough and have some fliers. After sight change I had no more fiers.

Martin

[Daryl]

One thing the rear express-type sight does, is to reduce or eliminate the fuzzy halo some of us see with V and U shaped sights. Too, the bead front sight can be made about any diameter and still show up well - it doesn't have to be a huge 'jungle sight'.  Even if fuzzy, you know the ball strikes at it's centre, whereas with a blade that's fuzzy, the top and extremities of the sight are difficult to discern.  Works for me.
The little notch you see in the bottom of the V merely helps to define the centre in some light conditons & at longer ranges.

This one is on my 9.3x57.


Another, on my .40 squirrel rifle. rear and front sights.



Set of 3 leafs + standing piont blank sight. Only the point blank and 150 meter sights are filed to wide V in this photo. The others haven't been filed in in this photo. They are now. Suppose I could take another picture, but not needed.

[sonny]

won't the barleycorn silver front sight(low close to barrel teardrop)an a flat rear sight with a nick for the slot act the same???......sonny

[Roger Fisher]

Thanks for again posting those photos.  Very tempting I must admit! 

I do wonder if at this stage in life and shooting experience (in my case) if I should venture in to that new, to me, system of sights?  It would involve a lot of range work etc to get things sighted in and getting me used to it (I do believe)   Ok, I'm only thinking out loud.  The jury should disregard the last statments!

The onslaught of my cataracts would/will not help any style sight picture.

[Daryl]

Sorry to hear about the 'cat's' Roger.  They certainly make things more than difficult. Good thing they can be corrected with new lenses.(that's the fix up here)

If switching to this style of sighting, make the rear sight high, so it can be filed to the correct height at the range while shooting.  This is the easiest method, as getting the front sight height correct for the rear is more dificult than getting the rear correct for the front.

Here's the front sight on the .69 cal. rifle.


Here's another bead, for a higher express-type sight.


Here's the front sight off a friend's 'Sporting' Rifle.


Here's a drawing showing angles, height and base for a Sporting Rifle's front sight. It is applicable to a longrifle as well. Forsyth noted the front sight should be 1/2" long, for strength. Most I've seen are about 4/10".  Normal 1/8" diameter round brass rod is a good one for this.  Once soldered to the base, it is easily filed to a tapered shape, then the 'nose' can easily be reduced to whatever size looks good to you.


Note the angle of the bead - it has sharp sides, yet a sloping 'face'.  This ensures that light reflection is 'true', always a circle of light without highlights & doesn't cause the off shots, as a rounded edge on a bead or blade will.

[KNeilson]

Heres the sights I made for my rifle, I used brass because its easy to work and I just wanted to "try" the express variety. Next bit of time I get `tween other projects I plan to make a steel set. Heres the original set



 And a couple pics of the "Express" type




I made the bead by bending a brass strip around as you would for a hinge, soldered a bit of silver wire in the middle and then attached the bead to the tapered base. The silver glints nicely in the light. I used felt pen to blacken them, looks like another coat is necessary....  Kerry

[Daryl]

Looks pretty good. The notch in the rear sight is bigger than I like - but whatever works for your eyes is best for you.  It is good to see what other 'folks' have figured out and what works for them - it gives ideas.

[KNeilson]

Thx Daryl, I did a search on sights and really enjoyed reading the posts and pics that youve provided regarding express types. For my eyes, the notch and bead are about the same size when sighting. I can see the light just dissapear under the bead when elevation is correct... Too much to learn, too little time........ BTW, your folding setup is just too cool, I want to try one at some point.......    Kerry

[Daryl]

Trouble with hinged sights complete with springs, is they aren't cheap. They were expensive in 1986 when I bought the 3 leaf sight from Brownell's, and of course they cost more now.  The only good thing, is they didn't go up much - no where near what everything else has gone up.   There is a LOT of filing to do.

To do this again, I'd just go with one of the higher profiled folding leaf Jaeger sights from Trackofthewolf.com.  Cutting the long dovetail for my read sight would have been impossible without Taylor running the files.