touchhole

[The other DWS]

I'm working up the nerve to drill the touch-hole and just want to go over this issue one more time.   I'm planning on using a W/L liner.  I need to drill the initial touch hole 1/2 the liner diameter ahead of the breechplug face, and then enlarge it to accommodate the Chambes-supplied drill/tap--Is that correct?

The lock/pan position relative to the barrel/breechplug face is set (precarved stock with pan-motise preinletted too specifically to shift forward or to move the barrel back any)   the center of the pan as it is now is about 1/16 or a tad more ahead of the breech face. It'd probably work as is with the kit-supplied smaller diameter Ampco liner, but I prefer to use the larger W/L liner for function and appearance reasons.

 I have been advised that one can mill the end of the breechplug wiht a halfround end mill to recess it a bit and make a round breechface scraper to match--sounds logical except I do not have the equipment to do that.
 I can rework the pan itself to relocate its center a bit forward to put it almost centered on the liner touch hole  which should allow the W/L to work.  even if it is not precisely dead-nuts centered on the pan it'll be very close.

I'm more nervous about this than anything else I've done on the gun.  I've made other flintlocks years ago, used liners too.  Don;t know why this has me so skittish, unless its been the time I've spent on the site here with you guys and seen the standards you all work to

[billd]

How much larger is the WL than the Ampco?  I use 1/4" WL for all my guns. If you screw up the threads you still have two larger sizes to go to.
Bill

[Roger Fisher]

How much larger is the WL than the Ampco?  I use 1/4" WL for all my guns. If you screw up the threads you still have two larger sizes to go to.
Bill

Good ol Bill is on the money, since the larger diameter the liner is the more forward you should shift that liner w/o chopping at the front of the plug.  Chopping at the plug has been done before ; but it does create a fouling trap, unless you pay off the pow wow lady and it blows the fouling clear via the touchole as you shoot her (no not the pow wow lady)

[Jerry V Lape]

Chopping at the plug is the last resort.  You have better options including reshaping the pan to move forward a bit and to use the smaller liner which will do everything the larger one does. 

[Dphariss]

I'm working up the nerve to drill the touch-hole and just want to go over this issue one more time.   I'm planning on using a W/L liner.  I need to drill the initial touch hole 1/2 the liner diameter ahead of the breechplug face, and then enlarge it to accommodate the Chambes-supplied drill/tap--Is that correct?

The lock/pan position relative to the barrel/breechplug face is set (precarved stock with pan-motise preinletted too specifically to shift forward or to move the barrel back any)   the center of the pan as it is now is about 1/16 or a tad more ahead of the breech face. It'd probably work as is with the kit-supplied smaller diameter Ampco liner, but I prefer to use the larger W/L liner for function and appearance reasons.

 I have been advised that one can mill the end of the breechplug wiht a halfround end mill to recess it a bit and make a round breechface scraper to match--sounds logical except I do not have the equipment to do that.
 I can rework the pan itself to relocate its center a bit forward to put it almost centered on the liner touch hole  which should allow the W/L to work.  even if it is not precisely dead-nuts centered on the pan it'll be very close.

I'm more nervous about this than anything else I've done on the gun.  I've made other flintlocks years ago, used liners too.  Don;t know why this has me so skittish, unless its been the time I've spent on the site here with you guys and seen the standards you all work to

How well the barrel is breeched is a factor as well.
If I can get some stills off the CD with the bore scope video I will post and explain.

Dan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

How thick is your barrel at the breech?  On my Mark Silver / Chambers' Virginia, I used a 5/16" x 32 liner (WL) and the barrel wall was thick enough to contain everything and still be almost perfectly flush with the plug's face.  Another blessing of nice fat barrels.

[The other DWS]

I'm not at home now so  .  .  .  .  .     I think the Ampco is the 1/4 size and the Chambers is the mid-size -- 3/8ths isn't it.   I'm not sure of the barrel thickness.  Its TOTW's 54 cal rifled barrel listed as a substitute for the smoothbore in the Type C trade gun kit.

I'd almost rather use a plain oldfashioned straight touchhole than alter the breechplug face

  The Ampco is smaller and it has the option of unscrewing since it is slotted,  it is the odd colored metal and just doesn't "proper".  The W/L is larger of course and will look more "natural" but would not be removable other than drill and easy-out in a shop.

Since both are internally coned, do you think the size will make a significant difference (not that I probably will be able to tell) in ignition times or quality.

the distances are sooooo close its really hard for me to judge exactly, I even got a 4 ft length of 3/8th  steel brakeline to measure with since I didn't trust the wood ramrod for measuring to the breechface.

I suppose I could drill it for the small one, then measure the amount of space to the breechplug face  with a feeler and see if there is room to ream and thread with the larger one.

[Ken G]

Take the breech plug out of the barrel and then you can lay it along the outside of the barrel and mark it.  You need the breech plug out to drill the ventliner anyway.  If you drill the hole with the the plug in you risk hitting the edge with your drill bit and ending up with an egg shaped hole or worse, a broken bit. 

[Herb]

I just went through this.  Have a Stonewall Creek stock, inletted for  an L&R Classic lock, and a 42" B .50 Rice barrel.  I carefully measured the breech plug face from the back of the barrel, that nice 1/2" long plug, added half of the 5/16" White Lightning liner, plus about 1/32" to be sure the tap didn't cut threads in the plug face. and drilled, tapped and installed the liner.  Then I set the barrel back to the rear by cutting the end of the inlet, until the flash hole centered on the lock pan.  I must have cut that barrel back at least 1/8" from the starting inlet.  This is for appearance and workmanship.  As long as the flashhole fell within the pan opening, it would have worked, but I wanted it just so.

[The other DWS]

"Take the breech plug out of the barrel and then you can lay it along the outside of the barrel and mark it"  DUH !!!!  that alone was worth the price of admission.   I've been chasing my tail on this so much that never occurred to me----normally I'm pretty good at problem solving and finding simple solutions.

Now I know 'zakly what I need to do.

THANK YOU

[Dphariss]

These are photos taken off a TV screen of a bore scope video. My diesel mechanic son joined the USMC and left his Snap On bore scope behind only has a 36" probe though.

This is a 38" 50 caliber barrel breeched by the maker.



The rifle maker then bungled the vent liner (and almost everything else) it protrudes into the bore.
The breech plug forms a wonderful fouling trap that makes it impossible to get the fouling out. It and the screw slot equipped liner have been out and cleaned at this point the rebate on the breech plug was totally packed with fouling but no rust, it had been oiled and it lives in low humidity. BP fouling is virtually non-corrosive below 30% RH.



The face of the breech is smaller than the land diameter and looking into grooves you can see about .075"-.1" back to the threads which do not reach the end of the drilled hole (?) in the breech.
If shot with something really aggressive like some of the "replica" powders this thing will probably fail by the fouling eating out to the side of the barrel.

As is it is difficult to clean and makes an "oil trap" that can contaminate the powder charge.

The other barrel is a piece rifle barrel made into a pistol 54 caliber 1" at the breech. Breeched with a 3/4 16 thread and a plug I made for hot rolled 4140 GB steel. There is a little black in the corner of the lands in a place or two. It probably shot about 50 rounds total for testing and fun.




It is perfectly sealed though there might be a "slight" leak at the vent. But the liner is installed on a shoulder and its pretty well sealed too.


Had I been able to make it 11/16 thread I could have had a perfect seal of the breech and the liner.
Sorry about the photo quality. Will see if I can re-do the bore scoping and get them so I can post on Photobucket.

Dan

[PIKELAKE]

I just went thru this business about a month ago and had a problem which has been discussed. From my experience, please use a quality drill bit and proceed as the others have suggested. Drill bits are all not created equal.

[Dphariss]

I just went thru this business about a month ago and had a problem which has been discussed. From my experience, please use a quality drill bit and proceed as the others have suggested. Drill bits are all not created equal.

Drill a pilot hole first and follow with a sharp, good quality bit of the desired size. Pilot hole about 1/2 the final diameter (if possible) will allow the bit toe drill with little force and it will tend to cut the proper size.

Most hardware store bits leave a lot to be desired.

Dan