about locks

[frenchman]

i am hard at work trying to finish this gun,a  Tennessee style here is the situation i am using L&R duregg lock and i am reading some interesting comments about this baby which is not entirely motivating. I am not a patient man when things don't work right if ever this action goes crazy on me i would change it for a chambers gunmakers flintlock will the sear bar be at the same place. I am trying to copy a gun that i saw and it had this action seemed to be a good idea at the time now i wonder
Denis

[Daryl]

I have the L&R Durr's Egg lock on my Tenn. rifle - nothing wrong with it.  My first flintlock also had the L&R Durr's Egg lock - it worked just fine as well.
I have heard a lot of negative about L&R locks, however those were virtually all purchased straight from L&R.  All of my locks and the excelelnt L&R locks I am familiar with now, came from Track.

[frenchman]

thanks Daryl

[California Kid]

I want to use the Bailes lock on a pistol as the style is right for the gun I have in mind, but am very concerned about the quality issues I've been hearing about. Anybody have any recent experience with these? Or should I just plan an earlier gun using a small Chambers Siler?
I wish Jim would consider making a small version of the late Ketland lock. HINT HINT!!!!

[Acer Saccharum]

I have a Bailes lock on my target gun, and it is very fast, reliable, and the mass of the hammer is so small, the gun hardly vibrates from the lock function.

I broke a frizzen spring on mine once. I keep a spare in my shooting box.

Great lock.

Tom

[Bill of the 45th]

L&R's of late have improved, and while their QC is not yet quite at the level of Chambers, they have really improved int the last couple of years.  The frizzens seem to be of a proper hardness of late and spark well, and the springs seem to be stronger, and so they tend to work well compared to years past.  Good flints also help in proper operation, which means black english, and Rich Pierce of the proper size.  Let me restate that. FLINTS OF THE PROPER SIZE make a big difference.  That cut agate stuff is @#$%/!!, don't waste your money.We need every pattern of lock we can get for correct style of builds, so if we keep letting L&R and others know of the problems they should improve their quality.  The reason I'm concerned about losing lock companies, is that it will create weird guns, such as right now on the Track site there are about six or seven Southern rifles with German Chambers locks, and only one that bothered to do enough research to put a proper English lock on their build.  Thats' really sad.  There are many quality locks out there to chose from, so don't despair.  Spend your time to make sure you have a good lock, as it is the heart of the gun you build, and if it doesn't work , you then have a stick.

Bill

[Acer Saccharum]

..... you then have a stick.

Bill

A hockey stick?

That is a great comparison, Bill. I will try to remember this for future use.

Tom

[California Kid]

Then you could play stick ball with the lock, oops I mean rock.

[Bill of the 45th]

A Stick as in if the lock don't make sparks, your gun is  just have a stick, as far as usefulness.

Bill

[California Kid]

And the lock is a rock to hit with the remaining stick!

[LURCHWV@BJS]

   J bet you can scrape alot of @#$%/!! with a stick like that.


                Rich

[Daryl]

Dennis - I have the Bailes lock on my .54 pistol - works perfectly - very fast ignition, just as fast as any other lock and probably faster than most this size.



L&R John Bailes locks are what Taylor used on this double 12 bore. Sorry- didn't have a better picture in photobucket, for some reason.

[Dphariss]

I have a Bailes lock on my target gun, and it is very fast, reliable, and the mass of the hammer is so small, the gun hardly vibrates from the lock function.

I broke a frizzen spring on mine once. I keep a spare in my shooting box.

Great lock.

Tom

They hardly jar a pistol.
Building a pistol with one right now.
Dan

[smylee grouch]

I have been told that those little L&R locks eat up alot of flint but maybe those were of earlier production. Have any of you had that problem with that lock?   Gary

[Rolf]

I have an L&R Bailes flintlock on the pistol I made. I get about 15 shots pr regular flint bougth from TOW and 20 from  a cut agate done by a local gemstone cutter.

Best regards

Rolf

[Daryl]

My flints last about 30 shots on the pistol. They need to be napped more often than on the larger locks, as ignition from small locks requires more attention to the flint. They must be sharp - perhaps sharper than a rifles lock, which carries more energy.
Note Dan is making a pistol right now on one.
I have locks that are hard on flints - strong mainsprings and strong feather springs - if the flint is small or too thin for the lock, some will break on first strike, while proper size go 100 more more shots.  Learning what your lock wants for flints is merely one of the 'testing' stages of any gun.

[Dphariss]

I have been told that those little L&R locks eat up alot of flint but maybe those were of earlier production. Have any of you had that problem with that lock?   Gary

Not in my experience.
Its a copy of a 1780s English by a maker I can't think of right now.
The one I have on a pistol right now has had the springs re-arched to make it spark better. The castings were a little flat when I got it.
A lot of the "flint eating" people experience is from the frizzen rebounding and striking the flint.
I have a copy of a Manton lock with very stiff springs and it does not eat flints.
If you have a flint eater try using a larger piece of leather to pad the flint and let it extend over the top of the flint.
While it may need work after it arrives I still think its a great pistol lock.

Dan

[Cody Tetachuk]

My first Durs Egg was VERY hard on flints. I was LUCKY to get 20 shots from a rock. I discovered (by comparing it to another Durs Egg) that the frizzen spring was mounted about 1/16" too far to the rear which put the frizzen toe at the bottom of the cam lobe forcing it to climb the hill before kicking over. This put alot of undue stress on the flints. I ground the cam off of the spring and the lock works much better now. I have a couple L&R manton locks on a sxs and they work quite well with Rich's flints.

  Learning what your lock wants for flints is merely one of the 'testing' stages of any gun.

Very true. However, it seems that few people give flint testing the time and dedication it requires if you REALLY want the most out of your lock and a rock. With all due respect to Bill, comments like " sawn agates are @#$%/!!, Don't waste your money" only means that due diligence has not been applied to sawn agate testing. Some of my locks just won't work well with agates. Some work very well. The rifle that I shoot most has a Chambers "golden age" (I think that's what it's called) and has NEVER got fewer that 100 shots to a cut agate. It usually goes in the 130 range give or take. That's about double what my best locks that use knapped flints get.

[Daryl]

I had Rich make me some flints that were a little heavier for a certain old Siler I have - think it was built form parts as the detent (fly) pivot hole is not drilled.  It was hard on flints, but the slightly heavier flints Rich made me will sometimes last well over the 100 mark. I had one that went over 200 shots.

[northmn]

Since I shoot left handed I use more L&R locks than Chambers as more of them fit the styles I like.  The most problems I have had with L&R are with the larger "Hawken" flintlocks that have the roller on the frizzen spring.  I have broke a couple of them where the roller is installed.  The Bailes and Durs Egg are a better design as the roller is in the frizzen.  My Bailes is mounted on my 25 squirrel rifle and works as good as any lock I have ever used.  The point was made about using the correct size flints and is an important one, especially for a hunting lock.  Sometimes a lock takes a little tuning, which may separate the builders from the assemblers.

DP

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have had frizzens springs break on a number of different locks, by several manufacturers.  So now, the first thing I do, is polish the frizzen spring, and draw the temper (it's already too hard) to a bright blue.  No more broken frizzen springs.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Taylor, I have never broken a spring so I am a little afraid to fix what ain't broke.....but how exactly do you know the springs are too hard and how, exactly do you "draw the temperto bright blue."

Only problem I have had with a spring was once on a large English lock the frizzen rubbed a low spot on the spring and it would stick.... had to staone the spring and the bearing surface of the frizzen and no more problems.

But, foreknowledge is better than no knowledge if I can prevent spring breakage.......

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

First I polish the spring so I can see the colour properly.  Then I place the spring on a piece of 1/4" thick copper that has a hole drilled just big enough and deep enough to take the tit, allowing the spring to lie flat on the copper.  I secure the plate in the vise horizontally, and heat it from the bottom with a propane torch,running the flame all over the bottom of the plate.  I put a drop of motor oil on the middle of the plate, and it tells me when the temperature is getting close as it begins to smoke.  I back the heat off a little for better control.  At this stage, the spring will be taking on a yellow colour, then brown, then purple.  Slow down the heat, and the spring will become a beautiful dark blue, and then most of that will disappear and it will become light blue.  Now I remove the heat altogether, and let the spring soak at that heat until it is cold.  This is the result.  A spring that is cooked right through at the proper temper...

[Daryl]

Hey - just remembered - I have a new feather spring that needs temering, Taylor - the one for the Dickert lock. The first one, a bit too hard and never temered(drawn), broke after about 4 years of hard work.
That dickert lock- an L&R one of the best sparking locks I've ever seen and I've seen most of them at one time or another. Taylor will attest to it's reliability and speed. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

When Daryl was converted from being a pagan to an enlightened flintlock shooter, he used to say that there wasn't a flintlock made that could beat his flinch.   The Dickert is faster than his flinch, @!*%?&.