Shotgun rigs

[Habu]

Yesterday a friend gave me an old Belgian double shotgun.  After an inspection (and a mad hunt to find my caps!) I testfired it today.  Gun is fine ('except the RH hammer is striking the cap off-center).  The hunting bag I was using wasn't.  My bag and horn are basically set up for rifles and muskets; I've not shot a double caplock for almost 20 years. 

So all you folks hunting with doubles, how are your bags set up? 

thanks!

[northmn]

The days of the percussion doubles gave us the seperate shot bags and powder flasks.  Safety today says NOT to load directly out of the powder flask measure.  The shot flasks are spendy but drop premeasured shot loads.  In my duck blind days I would lay the stuff out so that I could reload pretty quickly and carried my powder and shot containers with attached measures.  There shooting twice was more common.  For grouse hunting I carried a home made shot bag that held maybe up to one pound of shot as the shooting has since not been that wild and with a ML you shoot less than with a modern gun as the grouse would be long gone if I tried to ear back both hammers.  even with a modern gun I only carry maybe ten shots total down a trail.  For pheasants I likely would carry about the same.  You only need card wads which can be carried loose in the pouch or you can make up paper cartridges.  My big thing as that at first I started to walk a little lopsided carrying all the gear but realized that I do not need all that big of shot and powder flask (when I was younger my vest was always filled with 25 shells, not any longer).

DP

[Daryl]

Track sells a canvas "Upland" bag.  I use one for my .40 rifle, bit large for that, but it's other use is for the 20 bore.  There are 2 fairly large internal pockets for wads or priming horn and 3 smaller external pockets for wads or whatever.  The main flap extends down to lightly cover the outside pockets.  I really like the bag and it's cheap.  The main pouch is large enough to hold the shot flask easily, along with any tools needed and the strap is adjustable.  I glued heavy cloth to the underside of the flap, as well as sewed flattened balls to the flap for weight to hold it down. This works quite well for rifle or smoothbore.
A horn over the shoulder holds powder.

[BrownBear]

I'm in between.  I've been using the gear in the photos as an interim measure with my existing bags.  The next step will be to build a dedicated bag with an integral shot pouch and wad pocket.

Here's what I've learned from these pieces:  

The shot pouch is about the size of my fist.  Doesn't sound bad, but it holds an honest 3 pounds of shot with room to spare!  The next one I build will be sized for a pound of shot- plenty for most days in the field.  I'll also move the attachment points so it can hang upside down, yet not swing around too much.  Right now that looks like one at the end opposite the spout and one on the side near the spout.  I definitely want to be able to take it off the bag.

The wad pouch/pocket is about the size of a deck of cards, but holds a couple of dozen 11 gauge wads and a bunch of overshot cards with room to spare.  It could be smaller for sure, but I'll actually make the one on my bag bigger for more finger room.  It needs something other than a button for closing, though.  My fingers are just too clumsy, especially when cold.  I might even make the one I build onto the bag without a means of securing.  I'll probably put it on the outside of the front panel and under the flap for more convenience.   It would be kinda nice to access powder shot and wads all outside the bag, rather than having to dig.

[northmn]

I like the shot pouch.  I made mine with a simple wooden plug and attached a measure.  Actually I commonly used the same measure for shot and powder in the field, about 8- 90 grains for a 12.  For my 28 I used about 60-70 grain measure.  Flasks work good for powder.  One of my favorite is the little one they use for a 32 cal revolver.  I let the card wads lie loose in the pouch as it was easier than digging.  Split part of one off for an overshot wad.  If one carried say 8 extra shotshells for upland you would be carrying about 9-10 oz of shot.  Under modern hunting conditions and bag limits one pound is more than plenty.  In my case, I usually have the car or truck where after walking a trail I can replenish if needed.

DP

[northmn]

Hunting coat pockets do not make all that bad of bags either.

DP

[BrownBear]

...but what was most interesting...(the not HC part)...was that where a button would normally be, a flat magnet was stitched inside the outer layer of leather, with a corresponding piece of steel stitched inside the leather where the flap magnet landed when the flap was closed...if that wouldn't go against your grain too much, you might consider the magnet approach.

Yeah, I've used several versions on camera bags and purses.  This one is available from Tandy, and is nice because it's spiked and easy to remove or add.  Probably a little more gun oriented if not PC, I've been using Sam Browne Buttons lately, and I really like them.  They may end up on the pockets of my next shooting bag rather than buttons, as a matter of fact.

[smokinbuck]

Habu,
I have a bag that a rriend made up that has the usual pockets sewn inside but the unique part is that he mad the flap hollow and put and Irish shot spout on it. The weight of the shot and the spout keep the flap closed. Don't know how to post pics but if you want to see it I can email some to you.
Mark

[BrownBear]

My first thought was that the hole would wallow out and not stay 'caught' but so far that's not been the case...probably use it a couple dozen time a year for a few years now...definitely fast and convenient

I've had the same reaction making my own, but with quality leather it doesn't seem to be a factor.  I've been using the same saddle bags with them for over 30 years, and they were my granddad's bags for who-know-how-many years before they were passed on to me.  Still going strong.

[BrownBear]

I checked my files, and the only photo I have of the Sam Browne buttons is on some photo gear (sorry bout that, and it's out of focus, too).  The filter case and accessory box at the bottom and the lens case at upper right all use them for closing.  They work really great on muzzleloading gear if provenance is not an issue for you.

Moderators- If displaying the photo gear rather than ML gear is inappropriate, can this post with my blessings. 

[northmn]

A leather loop instead of a slit over a button works as does a small weight on the flap. 

DP

[Levy]

I have a shotgun hunting bag that I have enjoyed for many years.  It is a double bag with a horseshoe shaped shotbag around it's perimeter.  There is an Irish shotcharger at the bottom so gravity keeps it full.  The two bag compartments have plenty of room for the different wads and cards.  Tim Albert is making a couple of them for some friends.  Mine was made for me by Al Tomkins (now deceased).

James Levy 

[Habu]

Thanks for the replies guys!

I got my introduction to ML shotgunning back as a kid, back when Starr was still active in SoDak.  I hitch-hiked up there to see him a couple times.  As I recall he was a promoter of carrying supplies in hunting coat pockets, but I've never been a fan of hunting coats.  Tried carrying stuff in the pockets of my field jacket but never got comfortable with it. 

My usual setup is a double-pocket hunting bag with powder horn on a separate strap.  This works well for rifles and muskets, but the rifle bag didn't want to carry all the "stuff" I stuffed in it.  (I suspect the bag secretly resented carrying a capper, caps, and nipple wrench.) 

I'll probably go with a similar rig for the shotgun.  My default bag pattern (copied from an early double-pocket bag) should work out well.  I'd not considered building a shot flask into the bag body--I was thinking about a shot snake on the strap.  I'll have to play with that idea some.  How much shot are you carrying in the integral shot flasks?  I like the idea, carrying the shot flask in the bag just felt awkward.

Amount of shot to carry is a bit problematic.  Since steel shot came in, duck hunting with an ML is almost more bother than it is worth.  Doves are still an option though--and I can miss a lot of doves!  I've seen days back home when I'd get 50+ shots at doves in an evening (pass-shooting waterholes).  Sometimes I'd even manage to limit out before dark. 

The rest of the time though, 10-15 shots was about it.  Maybe make a flask integral with the bag to carry a pound of shot, and add a shot snake for dove hunting?

Wads are not a problem: I've stuck with Starr's system of using 3 card wads, two over the powder and one over the shot.  Works out well.  With a double bag I can just carry wads in the front pocket.  I can carry tools and spare caps in the back pocket, along with a few round ball and maybe some buckshot.

So, double bag with wads, caps, and tools in one pocket, wads in the other.  Integral shot flask holding a pound or so of shot, add a shot snake to the strap when dove hunting.  Powder horn and measure on a separate strap. 

Capper somewhere--any recommendations for a good shotgun capper?  After wrecking the inline capper I was using, I'm thinking maybe one of Ted Cash's Rifle Cappers would be a good choice. 

[BrownBear]

Capper somewhere--any recommendations for a good shotgun capper?  After wrecking the inline capper I was using, I'm thinking maybe one of Ted Cash's Rifle Cappers would be a good choice. 

I'm getting pretty fond of just using a strip of heavier leather with holes punched along each edge, then a single knife cut between the hole and the edge of the leather.  A strip about 3" long and an inch wide is perfect for a dozen caps, with six on each side.  I just toss an extra or two in the bag if I anticipate a lot of shooting, then trade them out once I empty one.

Fine tuning points- I use an extra scrap of strap leather to make a pocket for them on the strap.  For ease of manufacture and use, I punch a hole in one end of the strip, then pull a short piece of thong through the hole and knot each end, so no more than an inch sticks out.  Real easy to grab and hold onto, but not long enough to snag on anything.  I put my pockets down near the bag, but they could just as well be somewhere higher.  Sorry, no pics at the moment.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I made cappers from discs of leather, perforated along the edge to hold the cap.  For a #11 or so cap, you need some leather that is as thick as the cap is long (high).  I used a pair of compasses to draw out the disc, and then cut it a little oversized.  I drove a finishing nail through the centre, conveniently marked by the drawing instrument, into a pine board, clamped the board to the drill press, and with a #14 drill bit, made holes along the edge.  Then I clamped the board to the table of the disc sander and ground the leather to within a very short distance of the holes.  I got another piece of thinner leather for a backing, and put a bit of glue near the centre just to hold the two together, and then perforated them both and sewed them together.  Don't glue right out to the edge, because you want to be able to pull the capper off the nipple straight out, leaving the cap behind.  If you glue both pieces together, the thin web won't open and close as easily.  Drill or punch a bigger hole in the centre for a thong, and hang the disc capper upside down from your bag or strap, so you don't dose it.  Hanging upsidedown, the caps do not fall out, and don't get wet in the rain.  The dark rifle capper is only about 30 years old, and still works as good as the day I made it.  the other one is for my new-to-me Zouave rifled musket.  I don't have many percussion firearms, but I like the way this device has served me.

[BrownBear]

Those are really exceptional Taylor!

Mine are real basic and take about two minutes to make....  And they look it. 

The one I grabbed for the photo is only punched for 6 caps, but you can see where there's room for a dozen.  Purely functional, and with spares in the bag it's easy to swap them out on rainy days.

[Daryl]

What Tayl.or's pictures failed to show, was the thin 'backing' leather that is glued and sewn onto the back of the leather cappers. The backing prevents the caps from slipping out the back and provides a surface for pushing the caps onto the nipple. It's not necessary, but a nice 'touch' and is operational for this purpose as well as stiffening up the disk capper.

When hunting I kept my cappers full, so there was a cap available anywhere on the disk. This increased the speed of loading as you didn't have to look for a cap and rotate the disk to position the cap onto the nipple - it happened automatically.

[T*O*F]

I always wear a hunting vest with a game bag on the back, because unlike a hunting coat you can wear it over whatever clothing you have on.  I pre-measure my shot loads and put them in plastic 35mm film cans, along with a wad and cards.  I usually do 20 at a time to equal a box of shells and use whatever shot I need for what I'm hunting.  I put half a dozen in each pocket and the rest in the game bag.  To load, I measure my powder from the horn, pop the top on a can and load  card, wad, shot, overpowder card.  Then cap from my capper.  You can squeeze the film cans so they funnel the shot into the barrel.  Then put the emptys into the game bag.  Kind of a quasi-speedloader.

[Habu]

I never had much luck with the leather cappers, but none of the ones I saw/used as a kid had backing on them.  That looks like a significant improvement.  I'll get one made up and give it a try.  Once I get that detail worked out, I will start building a dedicated bag. 

Got a blank for a new ramrod done last night out of osage orange (the current rod appears to be pine--nice shape, but I'd rather have something harder). 

Need to completely go through the gun and get everything "right." It was once a good grade of Belgian shotgun, from the wear and in-service repairs, I suspect it once belonged to a market hunter.  The gun was broken and repaired through the wrist, I want to make sure that is sound.  I'll probably finish the stock too as most of the original finish is gone.  From there it is only a short step to re-blacking the barrels . . .

Hopefully, this fall I can get home and spend a few evenings pass-shooting doves.  Thanks for the advice and input!

[Daryl]

I made a couple just like the ones Taylor pictured, but with the backing merely glued on with contact cement, not stitched, for my Musketoon's musket caps. It works as well as the 2 rifle cappers that I've had since 86 - perfectly.
To use, just push it on the nipple, and pull off sideways. The slits running from the holes to the outside open to allow the cap to easily release, then close again to hold a new cap when refreshed.  There does not need to be a large welt between the cap and the outside.  The more material there, the harder it is to pull the cap off sideways. Note how close to the side the hole is.