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Author Topic: red fouling.  (Read 11035 times)

The other DWS

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red fouling.
« on: April 25, 2010, 02:49:38 AM »
I mentioned this in my other thread about firing my new under construction rifle for the first time but my question belongs here more properly.  I was able to shoot my rifle for the 1st time today.
54 cal colraine trade gun rifle barrel from TOTW/ oxyoke prelubed patches, hornady 530 balls,  70 +/- of 10 years old (at least) Goex FFF.   5 shots at about 30 yards, one nice big ragged hole right at point of aim.  happy with everything except patches-- most were perforated on the tops of the lands.  Have to go to a linen or a tougher cotton twill

My question is: On clean up my first tight patch, after a loose one soaked with a BP Bore cleaner product, produced a normal amount of fouling crud, quantity-wise about what I expected   However there were a fair number of chunks that were a shiny brick reddish color.  what is with the red fouling?

 Today was coolish and damp temps in the low to mid 60s and it has been raining off and on. I wiped the flint, frizzen and pan between shots, they muddied up quick.  Bore fouling seems to have kept soft and loading was easy by my limited standards
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roundball

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 03:26:52 AM »
Interesting you saw it under those damp conditions...I use Goex and experience little red flecks every year here in North Carolina like clockwork...but only during the dry, low humidity months of winter.
As soon as 'normal' to high humiditiy return they're no longer visible...some will be visible on patches, some at the muzzle, some around the vent, some in the pan, etc.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 01:03:54 AM by roundball »
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Offline markwi

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2010, 03:50:17 AM »
I get those little red specks off and on all year here in Southeastern Wisconsin. I was told by a shooter that mean the load was just right, so I started changing the load and the specks were still there ,so I wrote that off as made up black powder BS. Over the years I have found a lot black powder BS. Its got to be conditions are just right at the time. Just keep shooting. Mark
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The other DWS

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 03:57:53 AM »
I wish on of the BP chemo-gurus would chime in.  I do not figure its a problem but I'm real curious as to what  causes it to turn red
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 05:08:53 PM »
Its un-reacted sulfur as I recall
Common for some powders. I have not gotten it with Swiss but its milled longer and has a smaller particle size.

Dan
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Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 05:14:27 PM »
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The other DWS

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 09:33:15 PM »
Great link,  thank you very much SCL,  wanders a bit at times into the un-powder area but really well worth the look.  I've saved it for future reference.  It'll take some pondering since the chemistry and physics is above my grade.
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Daryl

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 01:59:00 AM »
I ahve always used the same powders, and have noticed 'barrel blood' time and again, with a variety of different granulations sizes and different calibres. I-too have read it's an indication of a 'well balanced load' - hog-wash!  I believe it has more to do with atmospheric conditions, ie; temps and humidity than anything else.
When it's appearing, I can load 165gr. in the .69 and get lots of it, or drop the load to 82gr. - same deal - little read beads in the fouling. Oh yeah - both loads are well balanced for sure - most any balance will be OK with the light charge, but the shooter needs to be well balanced for the bigger one. ;D
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Burgess_rudy

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 04:35:47 AM »
Great topic because I have had this same phenomena. My first thought was rust, but since I do in fact use red brick dust as a period correct method to polish the parts, I thought it was red brick dust from polishing getting in the touch hole. Now I feel more at ease.
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The other DWS

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 05:27:18 AM »
that link pretty well 'splains it----I assume ::)  if I got the jist of what they were saying.  bottom line is its nothing to be concerned about
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Offline Mad Monk

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 05:18:46 PM »
Quote from: The other DWS on April 27, 2010, 05:27:18 AM
that link pretty well 'splains it----I assume ::)  if I got the jist of what they were saying.  bottom line is its nothing to be concerned about

You may also see this as flakes or long slivers in the bore fouling.

Bill K.
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Leatherbelly

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2010, 03:44:06 AM »
  I get it in the barrel and the greenish stuff in the pan.I think it has to do with the relative humidity.Nuttin to worry about.
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William Worth

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2010, 02:03:02 PM »
I'm not worried by red fouling, but I am curious as to what it is.  One thing I noticed recently was where the fouling occurred.  A ring of it formed around the outside rim of the vent liner and near the muzzle.  Of course these are the only places that I can see very well.  But it makes me wonder if where it deposits perhaps has to do with where the pressure decreases.
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Offline hanshi

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2010, 07:17:38 PM »
I've noticed it inside the bore of my rifles as well as at the muzzle and around the lock at times.  This may be some of what has been described as "flash rust".
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Daryl

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2010, 08:51:56 PM »
flash-rusting is just as it sounds. When using boiling or exceptionally hot water to clean/flush the gun, then drying the bore, by the time you  grab the oil and another dry patch, the bore is rusted one end to the other.  That is flash rusting.  it happened to the TC I bought in 73, Taylor's TC from 69 to 74 or so, and Peter's .40 longrifle that Taylor built him.  We stopped using hot water then, however Pete didn't and over a numbe rof years, ended up with a pitted bore, one end to the other.

Two lead-lappings later, the bore of Peter's rifle is now usable, however it will tend to foul a bit - not enough to make one wipe the bore, but more-so than our other guns which have never flash-rusted.

Red beads or streaks are found after firing, not after cleaning.
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Burgess_rudy

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2010, 11:01:42 PM »
I shot my Brown Bess this weekend for the first time this year and noticed that the red fouling appeared in the pan like a slurry. I only wiped the pan between shots and never wiped the bore as I was shooting the traditional .69 calibre ball. I noticed that sometimes after a shot the pan would have the red fouling in it but other times not. Mystery.
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Daryl

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2010, 11:22:34 PM »
IT happens and is absolutely nothing to be concerned about.  Last sunday, the .40 was showing read beads near the muzzle sometimes, with a redish buildup of fouling form the pan's bottom, slanting up to the vent - again - it happens - or it doesn't- makes absolutely no difference one way or they other.
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Offline pathfinder

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2010, 05:34:45 PM »
We call 'em "breach flea's" and as pointed out,legend has it as your load is perfect,your just a bad shot! ;D ;D ;D ::)
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roundball

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2010, 05:47:50 PM »
I've heard that before too...this grand old hobby does have its hand-me-down old myths for sure... :)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 01:03:02 AM by roundball »
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Offline Kermit

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2010, 11:21:40 PM »
When I started shooting a few decades back, the greybeards said that red "berries" at the muzzle were a sign of having found the right load for the barrel. I noticed that they were sometimes there, sometimes not, without changing anything about the load. I stopped looking for them. I sometimes notice them, and just regard it as a curiosity.

Same guys used to say you had the right load when there was a very audible crack when fired. That one's nothing more than the projectile having exceeded the speed of sound. A little sonic boom, if you will. It's easy to notice shooting low velocity versus high velocity .22 rimfire loads. Never noticed any berries though... ;D
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Pvt. Lon Grifle

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2010, 04:43:42 AM »
I have noted the term"dragon's blood" used in European references(although in English translations)  dating back several hundred years about the finding of the red drops in the bore or muzzle.   Lon
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Offline wpalongrifle

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2010, 02:10:12 AM »
I'm going to throw this out there!! I enjoined everyones response, but i once heard the red streaks where "tagnets". Hope i spelled correctly..markers put in place by the powder manufactures by the government to identify powder explosion..after hearing responses from all over the USA..most use goex.
I've only used goex myself, so i cant compair to other powders.. ::)
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Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2010, 02:25:12 AM »
The Mad Monk described this in detail a while back. The red stuff is a sulfur compound. It shows up when the temp and relative humidity is right.  This is about all the explanation I am qualified to give with out badly messing up the details.    BJH
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roundball

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2010, 03:16:32 AM »
I always get the red flecks during low humidity / dry conditions, usually wintertime
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Candle Snuffer

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Re: red fouling.
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2010, 03:38:55 AM »
I've always heard it was do to humidity, but as Daryl said, it makes no difference whether it happens or not.  Think about it,,, low humidity - high humidity - the shot at that time must be taken regardless. ;)
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