Pistol Barrel Rifler

[Ken G]

I mentioned to several folks at the Norris show this weekend I was working on a little rifler for doing pistol barrels.  Thought I would share a couple of in progress photos.  It tedious and boring inletting work for sure.  I'm only doing a little 13 1/2" worm.  I can't imaging the work in doing a 4 foot work.  
Laying out the grooves.  


Stabbing in the lines


High Tech depth and width gauge.  


 

[angus]

That is awesome! What is gonna be your first project from this?

[Ken G]

The next project is a boring bench.  Then I recon I'll have to bribe Bookie with massive amounts of Moon Pies so he will teach me to weld barrels.   I'm sure that will take a bunch of the double deckers too.  Not them mini Moon Pies.  I hear you fellers are working on swedging lock plates. 
All the makings for a hand made pistol seem to be coming together.     
 

Ken

[Ken G]

Thought I would post a progress photo of the lil pistol barrel rifler. 

[msw]

Thanks for the post!  That's a really interesting- looking tool.

[BILL OKLAHOMA CITY]

would you explain to this rookie what this is and what it is used for?

[Larry Pletcher]

Ken,

Looks great.  After studying Bookie's book on rifling machines, I wanted to give it a try.  My lathe  won't handle a long spindle, and I gave thought to a pistol size too.  I had settled on maybe a 20 inch or less.  I haven't started yet.  I'll be very interested in your progress.  I hope to talk with you at CLA.
Regards,
Pletch

[Ken G]

Bill,
The short answer is it is the old time way of adding the rifling inside a barrel.  You push the carriage back and forth.  The spirel grooves turn the worm as the carriage moves back and forth.  There is a rod attached to the worm that extends into the barrel.  On the end of the rod is a cutter head that formes the grooves inside the barrel.  
If you will click on the link below, Gary has a more detailed explaination with pictures on his website.  
http://flintriflesmith.com/ToolsandTechniques/barrel_making.htm

Larry,
Bookie just posted some pictures of a jig Tim Crowe made for turning a long worm without a lathe.  He came up with a pretty clever way of getting around having a lathe that will turn a 4 foot piece of wood.  The little rifle has been a good learning tool for me even having the book.  It will also make a very transportable demonstration piece. 
Look forward to seeing you at the CLA show. 
Ken

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~toadhall/worm_router_box.htm

[Dphariss]

Ken,

Looks great.  After studying Bookie's book on rifling machines, I wanted to give it a try.  My lathe  won't handle a long spindle, and I gave thought to a pistol size too.  I had settled on maybe a 20 inch or less.  I haven't started yet.  I'll be very interested in your progress.  I hope to talk with you at CLA.
Regards,
Pletch

I would not go faster than a 30-36" twist. Pistols shoot fine with rifle twists for all bu the most finicky pistol shots. 2" or less at 25 for 66" 54 for example.

But that's just me.

Dan

[FG1]

Ken , what twist did you settle on for pistol barrels ?

[Rolf]

I 've got  four 15" long swamped pistol barrels, caliber 0.40  from Ed Rayl for my next project. The barrels have twist 1/18 as recommended by Ed.

Best regards

Rolfkt

[Larry Pletcher]

I would not go faster than a 30-36" twist. Pistols shoot fine with rifle twists for all bu the most finicky pistol shots. 2" or less at 25 for 66" 54 for example.
But that's just me.
Dan

 Hi Dan,
I hadn't gotten far enough to think of twist rate yet.  My 20" was the length of worm blank I was thinking of turning.  I figured 20" would be enough for any pistol barrel I'd try.   I can handle that easily on my lathe.  This sounds liker a winter project cause my lathe is in the basement.  I'll probably aim for a medium twist and ask for input when I'm closer.

Tim,
I was thinking about trying to cut the grooves while it was mounted in the lathe and using a back saw to cut the edges of the grooves.  Thank that would work?  Maybe a hack saw with  the height of the blade as the stop?? (thinking out loud here)

Regards,
Pletch

[Steve Bookout]

Ken, that little rifler for a muff gun is pretty neatly done.  Good job.  When are you going to tackle a long one?  Been busier'n all get out this week.  Managed to turn down 4 perfect rifle worm blanks, ruined 3 more.  Two were to be for pistol barrels. Had a large chunk of wood splinter off on yet another 48 incher, but managed to salvage it by turning the axle that goes into the handle a tad smaller in diameter.  Whew!  Yesterday was a long one.  Off to the lumber yard tomorrow to get some more 4X4s or fence posts.  Cheers, Bookie
P.S., and if you just happen to know somebody interested in a whole garbage can of wood chips and dust........

[Ken G]

FG1,
It's about 1:18 twist.  No particular reason for that twist other than 1:18 seemed to be standard twist for a pistol barrel.  I did use 5 grooves to be different.  

Ken

[FG1]

Thanks Ken .

[Steve Bookout]

Brother Ken, I have posted four photos in the Shop Made Tools section concerning a new brain cramp of mine to drill the rifling rod hole into the tail stock.  Big time improvement!  Cheers, Bookie

[Ken G]

Dang if that ain't timely for me!  Drilling the tail stock is my next step.  Thanks for the tip and posting the pics. 
Cheers,
Ken

[Dphariss]

I would not go faster than a 30-36" twist. Pistols shoot fine with rifle twists for all bu the most finicky pistol shots. 2" or less at 25 for 66" 54 for example.
But that's just me.
Dan

 Hi Dan,
I hadn't gotten far enough to think of twist rate yet.  My 20" was the length of worm blank I was thinking of turning.  I figured 20" would be enough for any pistol barrel I'd try.   I can handle that easily on my lathe.  This sounds liker a winter project cause my lathe is in the basement.  I'll probably aim for a medium twist and ask for input when I'm closer.

Tim,
I was thinking about trying to cut the grooves while it was mounted in the lathe and using a back saw to cut the edges of the grooves.  Thank that would work?  Maybe a hack saw with  the height of the blade as the stop?? (thinking out loud here)

Regards,
Pletch

I can't imagine a maker going to the trouble of making a rifling guide for pistols back in the day when they had one for rifles.
Twists:
I admit that I use the pistol for real things and not for punching paper much. For this reason I seldom shoot less than 40-50 grains from a 50+ caliber pistol. With 50-60 grains of powder a rifle twist 54 will shoot well enough to kill deer to 75 yards or so.
But I built one in 45 with a GM pistol barrel and it seems to shoot well with all the powder that is practical in a 45. About 40 grains or so.  But the smaller diameter balls have far less rotational inertia than larger ones.  I guess I will have to do some more experimentation . Make another pistol in 54 I guess with a 22 twist. Will need to wring out the one I made for SPG some more before I deliver it. Its a 58 made from the breech end cut off of a GM rifle barrel.
I better get to work. Have a Guild Fair pending and need to get some things final polished etc etc.
Was back in the "Swamp" (NE Iowa in this case)  for a few days and gained a renewed appreciation for 95 degrees and 90+ humidity Usually go back at cooler seasons.

Dan

[Steve Bookout]

Dan, you left too soon.  SPG told me you were over this way.  Hope all is O.K. The water's higher and in some places actually over the tops of grown corn! More due in tonight.  

I believe that I have seen a picture of an English bench used for screw barrels on flint muff pistols somewhere, but don't quote me on that.  I think that some of the folks who build pistol sized riflers do so because of limited space, just want to see if they can do it and not have a large outlay of cash, or want the practice before they tackle a big gun.  Hope the Guild Fair is a success.  Cheers, Bookie
P.S., Don't you just love the northern Iowa coolness?  It's been hitting 100 here in corn Patch.

[Larry Pletcher]

. . . I think that some of the folks who build pistol sized riflers do so because of limited space, just want to see if they can do it and not have a large outlay of cash, or want the practice before they tackle a big gun.  . . .snipped

Cheers, Bookie

I resemble that.  I won't ever rifle a bunch of barrels, but I love to learn.  (I taught 10-year-olds kids for 34 years, and now find I like learning more than teaching.)  I bought your book and have a lathe that will handle a pistol-sized rifler.  I'll do it just to learn how.   This winter I'll probably have plenty of questions.  Building the rifling machine sounds like as much fun as using it after it's done.

BTW, Sounds like Ken had a great time at your shop.

Regards,
Pletch

[Steve Bookout]

Pletch, one of my mottos is:  If you have questions, I have answers (about my style rifling machine and it's operation, that is).  Now look closely at my eyes....do you see dollar signs illuminating yet?  

 I have a few barrels that were bored off center.  They are worthless to do as rifle barrels, but cut them in half and a pistol barrel or two will make a little rifler come in handy....so, Angus & Ken will probably inherit some of them for their little benches.

 Now as for Ken having a good time in my shop, well...I pay him handsomely to smile for the photos I take.  He also knows that I go off my meds once in a while, so he humors me (bless'is heart).  Cheers, Bookie

[Larry Pletcher]

I think this sounds like a good winter project.  I have  plenty of lathe projects to do.  I have a number of horns that will turn into Lancaster screw tips + the rifler.  I haul corn and soy beans  in the fall but will work around that.  BTW, I just realized that your buddy Al N. is just north of me in Michigan.  I may have to run up and see him some time.

Regards,
Pletch

[Dphariss]

Dan, you left too soon.  SPG told me you were over this way.  Hope all is O.K. The water's higher and in some places actually over the tops of grown corn! More due in tonight.  

I believe that I have seen a picture of an English bench used for screw barrels on flint muff pistols somewhere, but don't quote me on that.  I think that some of the folks who build pistol sized riflers do so because of limited space, just want to see if they can do it and not have a large outlay of cash, or want the practice before they tackle a big gun.  Hope the Guild Fair is a success.  Cheers, Bookie
P.S., Don't you just love the northern Iowa coolness?  It's been hitting 100 here in corn Patch.

I could see someone making a lot of pistols using a short guide but the average American rifle maker I kinda wonder.
I had several things I wanted to do the next time I was in Iowa. But it was not going to happen this time for several reasons.

I had 2 pistols to get ready for the fair and things to do to a rifle. The pistol locks came back from Wyoming today, color is pretty bright but I will leave it for now, maybe forever and I have everything done but the wedge on one of them so I should be able to get to the other stuff I need to do for the fair as well. The rifle will likely go as it is, needs some polish on the barrels but its not going to happen unless I get real ambitious in the AM.

Hot? Wet? I am not used to putting on clean clothes in the AM and have them be damp already. Where I live the perspiration evaporates as it forms most of the time. At least my Colt did not rust.

Dan