Author Topic: How many horns have you ruined?  (Read 9404 times)

Offline rich pierce

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How many horns have you ruined?
« on: April 27, 2010, 06:23:37 PM »
My biggest challenge when shaping horns is deciding how deep I can make the step from the body to the throat.  On a horn with a lot of twist, it seems impossible to gauge how thick the wall is.  Any special tricks?  I have tried sticking a little penlight inside the horn but if not translucent, this does not help.  Maybe I am too aggreesive in making the step and it could be more subtle.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Habu

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 06:45:13 PM »
Let's not go admitting how many mistakes we've made that cost money; it sets a bad precedent!  All those horns were planned that way, I wanted to make rum horns and salt horns and such. 

Doesn't look like anyone is going to believe that, so let's just say that at one point I must have had about 20-25 assorted salt horns, rum horns, horn cups, and powder measures in my box of trade goods.  When someone would comment on how nice the horn was, or that they wished I would have made a powder horn with it, I'd just shrug my shoulders. 

After a while I noticed that when thinning horn with a file I could hear the difference in the sound as it got thinner . . . . so I sacrificed a few horns that weren't quite what I wanted for size or shape or color.  I filed til I thought the sound was indicating the right thickness or minimum thickness, then cut the horn open on a bandsaw so I could actually see the thickness. 

It helped.  You sort of get a feel for the thickness after a while.  And I notice that almost every horn maker turns out the occasional salt horn.


BrownBear

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 07:27:35 PM »
I probably haven't made enough horns to be initiated yet.  ;D  Knock wood, or in this case, knock horn!

I will say that my limited number may contribute in more ways than one.  I know it's just a matter of time, but my limited experience just makes me too nervous to push things very far.  I reach a certain point and switch to scraping rather than filing or rasping.  I seem to have a lot better feel for thickness when scraping.

Good tip on paying attention to the sound while rasping.  I've noticed differences, but never tied it to thickness.

Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 07:40:09 PM »
Rich,

It all depends on what kind of horn you begin with.  Many of the horns sold today just don't have a lot of thickness.  I find this to especially true with horns that are already polished.  It just might be co-incidental that the type of horns that are sold as already polished are naturally thinner than other horns?  When making a large F&I period double twist lobed horn I start with an unpolished longhorn steer horn.  These horns generally have enough thickness to make a generous step down from the body of the horn to the throat of the horn.

Randy Hedden
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Offline Artificer

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 07:58:00 PM »
My biggest challenge when shaping horns is deciding how deep I can make the step from the body to the throat.  On a horn with a lot of twist, it seems impossible to gauge how thick the wall is.  Any special tricks?  I have tried sticking a little penlight inside the horn but if not translucent, this does not help.  Maybe I am too aggreesive in making the step and it could be more subtle.

Rich,

Back in the 70's I saw a neat modified old woodworker's caliper that may be real dandy for your purpose.  This was one of the smaller adjustable calipers that had no markings or scribe lines on it and had two inward curving legs.  The person heated and bent one leg flat and left the other leg curved.  The flat leg went in the spout hole and the curved leg was adjusted against the outside of the horn.  Then he used a magic marker to mark where the curved leg touched the outer skin of horn.  Then he screwed the adjustment loose so he  could take the compass out of the horn.  By adusting the curved leg back to the mark, he could measure the thickness of the horn where he had "gaged" it.  Then he cleaned off the magic marker with acetone.

An even more simple one could be made from two small pieces of brass or iron stock and riveted loosely together in the manner described above so it would be adjustable.


Offline Artificer

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 08:03:27 PM »
I've only made about a dozen horns and have been lucky I only ruined the first.  My Grandpa helped me make my first in 1972.  Unfortunately, he got a bit too aggresive cleaning out the spout hole and drilled through the side of the horn.  He was sick that he had ruined the horn.    He was in his late 70's when that happened.  I suggested we glue a wood plug over it and I used that horn that way for years.  I don't use it anymore, but will never part with it as it so reminds me of working with Grandpa.

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 08:51:52 PM »
Are you talking about a distressed horn with a copper or rawhide repair, antiqued finish and sold for extra $ because of the extra work it took to make the horn look authentic and backwoodsy? 

Offline rich pierce

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 09:25:58 PM »
That's what I am talking about!   :D  A "change of plans" horn!
Andover, Vermont

digger

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 09:49:31 PM »
I just finished my first, but ruined two in the process

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 10:02:10 PM »
Right now I am only doing a little better than 1 for 1.   Of course, there was a step learning curve lately in making my first screw-tips horns.   My mistakes have become bands.    That makes for some very nice bands when I ruin a scrimshaw grade horn. ;D

Mark




Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 10:07:02 PM »
I probably should have added that you don't learn anything when you don't make mistakes. ;D

Leatherbelly

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2010, 04:46:07 AM »
 Well I've let go of two or three horns that were not finished but were fine horns. But I'm f...screwing one up right now! Throats! Gol durn throats! I thought I'd try to get some of the taper filed off near the body and throat and throat and ring. My file got away on me and dug in where it shouldn't have. I'm ready to smash this one with an axe!





http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/Leatherbelly/P1000333-1.jpg

Not a scrim quality horn, but has a nice twist, albeit a lefty. Trying to get French militia type for a fusil. Fairly long,17" around the swell, 3 1/4" base.Should hold lots of powder.
  Lots of rookie mistakes on this one.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 06:14:08 AM by Leatherbelly »

Offline Beaverman

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2010, 04:52:04 AM »
More than I care to admit to, my problem is usually drilling through the side when boring the spout hole on a twisted sister tip!, thank god for applied tips , and flasks!

Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2010, 06:07:29 PM »
This goes in waves for me.  I will make a few horns with no problems then ruin two in a row.  I have a whole box of horns that I have drilled through the side of and am waiting to do something with one day.  Maybe never.

Coryjoe

Daryl

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2010, 01:33:33 AM »
Go through the side? NP - just line her up and drill from the blunder into the cavity, then deepen into the interior where the drill came out - dremel works well and stinks nicely. A ring of horn slid onto the main horn, glued with CA, hides the blunder - been there and fixed it that way - but then, I'm not really particular about how I carry the powder - PC wise, that is.

BrownBear

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2010, 02:16:33 AM »
You folks are making me really nervous! 

I may be well overdue, and with a box of a dozen new horns staring my face, I can't guess which one(s) might be the victim(s)!

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2010, 03:29:52 AM »
Brownbear,

Failure is a part of doing anything worthwhile.  Embrace it, and move on!

Mark E.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2010, 03:49:48 PM »
Well I've let go of two or three horns that were not finished but were fine horns. But I'm f...screwing one up right now! Throats! Gol durn throats! I thought I'd try to get some of the taper filed off near the body and throat and throat and ring. My file got away on me and dug in where it shouldn't have. I'm ready to smash this one with an axe!





http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/Leatherbelly/P1000333-1.jpg

Not a scrim quality horn, but has a nice twist, albeit a lefty. Trying to get French militia type for a fusil. Fairly long,17" around the swell, 3 1/4" base.Should hold lots of powder.
  Lots of rookie mistakes on this one.

I wish I could "ruin" a horn so well.  Looks great to me.
Andover, Vermont

Offline TPH

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2010, 03:47:22 PM »
Leather work? I am good at it. Gun making? I am reasonably good, at least OK. To the original question, "How many horns have you ruined?" All of them, I have no talent at or patience with horn work whatsoever.  ::)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 03:48:01 PM by TPH »
T.P. Hern

Offline skillman

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Re: How many horns have you ruined?
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2010, 06:54:59 AM »
I have screwed up a number of horns but I have ruined very few. If you think for a bit you can usually come up with a way to save them. I think that this may show more talant than just making a good horn.
Skillman
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