First Build, Flint Hawken

[Curtis]

Below are some photos of my first attempt at building a rifle, my interpretation of a halfstock flilnter Hawken.  The barrel is a .54 Green Mountain, cut to 33".  All the metal furniture as well as the barrel are browned, the screw heads and barrel keys are fire blued, the triggers cold blued.  I made (almost) every mistake in the book, learned a lot by trying to fix them as I went along.  I welcome any constructive criticisms to help with my next build, a .40 caliber early Lancaster flint rifle.



















Thanks for looking,
Curtis

[rich pierce]

Looks pretty darn clean, nice fit, finish etc.  The nose of the comb could be a little more subtle and I am not sure that on original Hawkens with "Tennessee style" cheekpieces, that the cheekpiece transitioned forward as much as you chose to do here.

[Roger Fisher]

I shouldn't even comment (since I hid my first build away) and know less about Hawken's than most folks; but however--- Did you shoot this rifle yet?  That extremely high comb seems out of whack and talking about 'whack' will possibly pound your ol cheeky

When you ask for comments your open to darn near anythingee!

[Curtis]

Rich,

I have to say your are right on both accounts, I have a lot to learn about rifle architecture.  The high comb is partially due to making mistakes in positioning the buttplate, and the cheekpiece originally started life as a beavertail style...  by the way, recognize that flint in the lock? One of yours, I believe!

[stuart cee dub]

Some  Hawkens did have a slight roman nose to the comb and  hint of a perch belly too.
If it starts whacking your cheek bone Squirrelheart ,I would take my rasp after the comb and transition that line to the buttplate with a file .
It would give it a much more pronounced roman nose but so what ?

[Curtis]

I've fired it a few times, not enough to get it sighted in yet, but she doesn't seem to be too much of a cheek smacker in spite of the high comb.  It actually points nicely on target when I bring it up quick for offhand shooting.  If it gives me troubles when I go to sight it in I may have to consider putting it  back under the rasp....

[T*O*F]

Curtis,
Sorry I never got back to you.  Too many irons in the fire.  Good job for a first build.  The thing that jumped out at me is the belly in the center of the forearm.  You cut the curve on the front of your lock panels and worked your nosecap down, but you never brought the center of the forestock down to their level.

The underside between the trigger guard and lock panels could use some work too.  I'll send you some details pics later, if I think about it.

[omark]

well, obviously, you put the patchbox and cheekpiece on the wrong side..     im not highly knowledgeable about hawkens, so i may be corrected, which would be fine. i believe the cheekpiec and trigger guard should probably be on a fullstock. that said, i am thinking about building one nearly identical to it. well, except for the cheek piece and tg will be on the right sides.     except for the few minor things the other guys have pointed out, i think you did a very nice job with your workmanship.  mark

[bluenoser]

well, obviously, you put the patchbox and cheekpiece on the wrong side..     im not highly knowledgeable about hawkens, so i may be corrected, which would be fine. i believe the cheekpiec and trigger guard should probably be on a fullstock. that said, i am thinking about building one nearly identical to it. well, except for the cheek piece and tg will be on the right sides.     except for the few minor things the other guys have pointed out, i think you did a very nice job with your workmanship.  mark

  So, Where exactly are you going to move the TG to? 

The gun looks pretty darn nice to me.  Some architectural issues but excellent wood to metal fit and finish.  I would be proud to carry it.  As I recall, that is the correct TG for an early Hawken.


Laurie

[omark]

laurie, guess thats an oops, too many things to think about for an old feeble mind. youre right about the proper tg, also, dont know what i was thinking. maybe i should just keep my mouth shut. as you say, the workmanship is great.  mark

[smylee grouch]

Looks like your workmanship is darn good, esp. for a first gun. One of the things that I might have done would be to use a different patchbox or cut fienial of of the one and inleted the round or oval with the lid opening to the top. Its a nice gun and you are probably hoplessly hooked on building so just enjoy.  Best wishes-  Gary

[bluenoser]

laurie, guess thats an oops, too many things to think about for an old feeble mind. youre right about the proper tg, also, dont know what i was thinking. maybe i should just keep my mouth shut. as you say, the workmanship is great.  mark

Mark,

Just one old feeble mind teasing another. 
No offence intended.

Laurie

[Curtis]

Sorry I never got back to you.  Too many irons in the fire.  Good job for a first build.  The thing that jumped out at me is the belly in the center of the forearm.  You cut the curve on the front of your lock panels and worked your nosecap down, but you never brought the center of the forestock down to their level.

The underside between the trigger guard and lock panels could use some work too.  I'll send you some details pics later, if I think about it.

Not to worry, Dave, I fully understand having too many irons in the fire.  I ended up setting the triggers much deeper than I originally planned in order to get them to function properly and didn't follow through with a good recovery on the belly of the forearm - I was kind of paranoid about breaking into the ramrod channel (probably without good reason) and backed off to much shaping that area.  Send me those detailed pics, it will help me out next time.

[omark]

laurie, guess thats an oops, too many things to think about for an old feeble mind. youre right about the proper tg, also, dont know what i was thinking. maybe i should just keep my mouth shut. as you say, the workmanship is great.  mark

Mark,

Just one old feeble mind teasing another. 
No offence intended.

Laurie

no offence taken, and if it sounded like i did, i apologize.  all in good fun, mark

[J.D.]

I'm thinking that the lock panels look a little big, and I think the forestock looks a little thick too. IMHO, a thinner fore stock gently tapering to the entry thimble would give a slimmer appearance.

However, all in all, it looks pretty good. IMHO, it is much better than my first one. Good job.

God bless

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Curtis, the architectrual things people pointed out can be corrected.  What impressed the socks off of me for a first gun was the quality of your workmanship re fit and finish! Keep building them!!!

[Curtis]

Curtis, the architectrual things people pointed out can be corrected.  What impressed the socks off of me for a first gun was the quality of your workmanship re fit and finish! Keep building them!!!

Thanks for the kind words Dr. Tim!  This is about the first thing I had ever done  with a chisel short of cutting a notch in a 2x4 for a water pipe, and I loved (almost) every minute of it.  Now it's in my blood... can't shake thinkin' about the next one, and the one after that.  Already got the parts!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I agree with those who have praised your fit and finish.  Very neatly inlet in spite of your self confessed lack of experience.  Others have pointed out the architecture problems in this rifle.  My question to you is, what did you use as a model?  Good architecture has to begin with knowing before your start, where you want to go.  Photos from reference material is usually all we have to go with, and there are ways to extrapolate the data - drop at heel and comb, length of forend to nose piece, placement and shape of cheek piece, as examples.  From there, a design needs to be put onto paper in full scale.  And one must follow this blueprint.  Another valid set of data can be gleaned by examining other rifles, even though they are not Hawken rifles, for their fit to the shooter.  I keep a record of rifles I build or get to hold, of all these bits of info, as well as an overall impression about the feel of the rifle.  If you refer to this info, and apply it to your new build, it should make a world of difference in the overall look, and especially the feel of the rifle.
Your rifle...there is no possible way that I could shoot your rifle with a comb line that appears to be almost as high as the line of the sights.  There is far too much wood in the butt stock.  The butt plate is inlet extremely well.  I have seen pictures of original Hawken rifles that had a curved lower line to the forend from the guard to the nose piece, but many are parallel to the upper edge.  Even though the patch box is upside-down, it is well done, although I might have tried to get the hinge line more parallel to the butt plate return.  If the box were on the other side of the stock, this would not have been so noticeable.
Thanks for posting the pictures, and congrats on taking on the challenge.  I can see by the workmanship, that you have much potential...I hope you will continue, and I wish you joy.

[Curtis]

Taylor,
First off I just want to thank you and the others that have taken the time to comment on and critique my first rifle, as I am very serious in my desire to  improve my rifle building skills.  Your work is among that which I have most admired on this invaluable site.  I truly hope as time goes on I can look fondly back on my first rifle and say "how far have I come", then look at the work of others, both contemporary and of old and say "look how far I have yet to go".   I can already tell this reply will be long winded, so reader be warned!

While I have a lack of inexperience with a chisel, I am fortunate enough to be blessed with modicum of artistic ability and a fair amount of patience, and I am familiar with the dumb end of a file as I have hand fitting parts on suppository guns for years.  To answer your question of "what did I use as a model?" I must confess, well not a whole lot of forethought went into this project when I got started.  I had purchased a copy of "Recreating the American Longrifle" and was on a quest for parts a .40 early Lancaster when I horsetraded a friend for an old Fajen factory second  "Hawken" stock he had for 20 years or so.  (That was my first mistake, should have started with a blank).  The stock had the barrel channel cut and ramrod drilled, and shaped like a CVA with a beavertail cheekpiece.

So ordered some hawken parts from Tip Curtis and started on a four month project to prep me for my .40 longrifle.  Three and a half years later you see what I ended up with, however in that same time frame I built a house as well as a workshop in which to work on rifle building  Fortunately I had met and befriended TOF on his old mailing list, and he helped me out as a long distance mentor, however I have a bad habit of not asking any questions until I have "painted myself into a corner" so to speak.  With some perseverance I hope to overcome that problem in the future.  Also I take your advice to planning a rifles' architecture to heart and have steadily been collecting reference material over the past couple of years.

The butt plate is inlet extremely well.  ....  Even though the patch box is upside-down, it is well done, although I might have tried to get the hinge line more parallel to the butt plate return.  If the box were on the other side of the stock, this would not have been so noticeable.

The buttplate was inlet almost exclusively with a rasp and files as suggested by Jack Brooks on his website.  I seems to have worked for a novice so I would recommend it as a method worth looking into.
http://www.jsbrookslongrifles.com/theclassroom.htm

Now for the patchbox - I used a right handed commercial box for this gun, with what I know now I would build a properly opening lefty box from scratch.  I never even noticed how the hinge line and buttplate line clashed until you pointed it out here.  Now it jumps at me every time I look at it!  I had focused on the axis of the center-line and it never even occurred to me what a focal point the hinge would create.  Thanks for pointing that out!

It took some courage for me to post these pics of my first build but my apprehension was for naught, as the insights gained from it have been educationally rewarding!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Starting with a precarved stock certainly limits what you can accomplish, especially when building a particular rifle, or even particular school.  I suspect the folks at Fajen used a T/C, Italian, or Spanish "Hawken" as their pattern, so forgive me for being blunt...you were doomed at the get- go.  Your choice of locks is good, in fact, for a lefty, I can't think of a better flintlock for your rifle.  I'd suggest you polish, and then draw the temper of the frizzen spring to a shiny blue, or it will likely eventually break.  L & R's springs are a little to hard, IMHO.

As far as reference material, there's lots out there, for practically all kinds of muzzleloading guns, so be diligent, and search until you find what you want.  I save images from this site, and from the contemporary blogspot of guns that I like and want to study more.  

Keep at it, and feel free to ask advice BEFORE you commit yourself.  There are many knowledgeable and generous builders here who can keep you pointed in the right direction.

[Curtis]

Taylor,
I found an old post of yours concerning how you temper springs to a shiny blue.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=7112.0

Got a question for you on polishing springs... what is your preferred method of polishing a lock spring?  And do you have to anneal before polishing?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Nope.  I start with a nice 6" flat mill bastard file to clean up the outside of the leaves, and needle files to do the inside, and the boss forward of the screw hole.  I'm referring to the Frizzen spring here.  But the same applies to the mainspring and sear spring as well.  Then I use files and popcicle sticks to back abrasive cloth starting with 80 grit, then 120, then 180, then I switch to paper at 220, 280, 320, 400, 600, 1000, and occasionally go as far as 1200 grit.

If I'm just drawing the temper of a spring that has come on a lock, and is already factory heat treated, I go straight to the tempering step.  If I'm working with a replacement casting, the spring needs hardening first, before the temper is drawn.  At the tempering stage, I have a clean and polished spring on which I can clearly see the colours as the process unfolds.