Author Topic: 18th Century Gun finishes - the art and mystery of varnish  (Read 10907 times)

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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I have had great luck with dewaxed shellac and alcohol as a sealer and colorant and with Chambers Traditional Oil Varnish as a finish. Now i am planning the finish for my black walnur English rifle from the 1750s.  So I thought since Tomegad is a traditional luthier he might be able to share another perspective that would be useful...realizing that violins don't have to function in the same environment as long rifles and fowling pieces of course?

So what did the Brits use on their 18th century sporting guns?  What about the idea that some guns might have had violin varnish finishes??
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Offline Stophel

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Re: 18th Century Gun finishes - the art and mystery of varnish
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 05:51:35 PM »
Depending upon what source you look at, old violins might have their grain filled with shellac or some other spirit substance, then a coating of "water glass" (If I recall correctly...I don't have my books in front of me), then an oil varnish (colored or not) as a top coat, in several layers.

One of my books says that the grain can be filled with linseed oil, which makes for a mellower sounding instrument, but naturally, takes far longer to dry.

That's about the limit of my knowledge on instrument varnish.   ;)

I like to fill the grain with shellac (actually, I like button lac with just a little bit of mastic) then put an oil varnish on top.  I'm still struggling with my own oil varnish, though.  The shellac keeps the grain clear and bright, and doesn't darken it like oil can.  I think this was a common finishing style on nicer guns well into the 20th century.  I believe it is even described in the Dunlap book "Gunsmithing".

As far as being a red colored varnish, this seems to have been rather common in the Lehigh and Berks county areas.  I have seen several guns from here (stained and unstained) with remants of a deep garnet red varnish on the surface.  If you have the book "Steinschloss Jaegerbüchsen", some of the Freund guns very obviously have a red varnish on them (they also have lots of other "Lehighisms....").  I have photos of a Swedish gun that appears to have red varnish also.

I don't know if the English ever used a colored varnish.  English guns are not my area of "expertise"...assuming I even have one.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 06:06:10 PM by Stophel »
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: 18th Century Gun finishes - the art and mystery of varnish
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 06:45:47 PM »
In the vernacular of the time varnish as anything that could be put on a surface and would dry to a shine.
Most gunmaker varnishes were mostly linseed oil. Various resins were used to harden the finish.
The varnishes were still soft and would not check or crack even if dented. These were used into the late 19th century in America on Ballards and such. The harder varnishes used on musical instruments, for example, may be too hard for gunstock use being designed to protect the wood and also to enhance the tonal quality.
The dark varnish on guns like this one stocked in perfectly straight grained maple is pretty common and I suspect would be correct for iron mounted eastern mountain rifles and apparently some northern Kentuckies as well.




I don't know the exact makeup but if it was shop make by Sam Hawken it was surely a low temperature oil varnish with rosin perhaps as a hardener and almost surely some lead to provide increased drying speed and color.
This finish shows no checks, flaking or other failures of finish other than where its has worn away or been broken/torn by impacts that damaged the wood under it. But its not something I would use on figured wood. But it would color and protect plain wood in one or 2 coats so the wood finish could be ready for use in a couple of days at the most.
With some more playing around I have found that an oil varnish will go on a scraped finish and not raise the grain at all. But it does not impart enough color to the wood to work well on curly maple and it needs to be somewhat darker to really color plain maple. But I quickly scraped a piece of curl maple and painted on some stuff I cooked up and it put on a shine and did not raise the grain. So this is a learning experience. Had I heated the varnish, which I though I had grossly overcooked, then applied it hot it may have given better curl definition but would likely require thinner coats.

I think that traditional finishes are largely ignored today with the availability of  modern synthetics or hot beeswax which has no documentation in gunstocking.
Part of this is the black eye given to linseed by people trying to  use modern "boiled oil" as stock finish. This started to occur probably in the late 19th or early 20th century when the technology was apparently lost with the coming of the modern factory made "better liveing through chemistry" finishes. The technology of making a simple high oil content varnish degenerated into the shiney, thick coatings found on some modern guns that would not survive one hunting trip. The synthetic finishes also make the wood look very bland and can sometime make the stock look like a painted or printed surface with no depth.
I think this is a shame.
This a rough cut walnut 2x4 that was given to me 15 years ago I suppose. I was looking for figure and set in the the mill and ran a 3" flycutter over it to clean it up.
It was never sanded and was pretty rough. I just smeared some of my heavy fill oil on it to show a couple of fellow Longrifle fans how the heavy, very thick oil would spread on wood and fill it. I set it back in the corner by the door and in a day or two I noticed how it had colored the rough unsanded  wood. This oil has been left open to form a skin and continue to thicken and is several years old now.



So I got into a cabinet and retrieved some varathane stuff we had used in the house on some wainscoting. I gave it a does of this as a comparison. When this was taken both had set on the wood for about 3 weeks or more, no sun just out of the way in the corner.
I got it out and saws a chunk off for some other project and decided it warranted a photo.
It dramatically shows WHY I won't use clear finishes. Note the change in color where the heavy (to thick to really drip off a finger dipped in the jar) oil was wiped on vs the plastic finish.
If anyone wonders how I can tell a plastic finish from oil this should pretty well tell the tale.
The area with the light colored varathane is actually smoother than the cut where the heavy coat of oil is.
But note how the boiled oil enhances the grain structure. Having stripped the finish from a walnut stocked plastic coated Browning 1878 some years back I can assure you that there is a major difference in a gunsmith type linseed oil on walnut and plastic as used by Browning on this particular gun.
Had I sanded the wood then cut the oil back to the wood surface it would look far better than it does. There is significant build up on the rough wood surface here that I would never leave on a gunstock. But is shows how a dark boiled oil serves as a finish and a stain on walnut.
While the reaction of maple is not as dramatic the dark oil does enhance the way the wood appears compared to clear finishes.
I know I sound like a broken record but modern clear finishes are not correct for a gunstock unless recreating a 1970s-90s breechloader. The do not provide the proper look. But they are faster drying and almost anyone can use them with pretty good success. They are engineered for this but they sacrifice looks for ease of use.

There are others who post here with far more experience than I in making oil varnishes and such.
Dan
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keweenaw

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Re: 18th Century Gun finishes - the art and mystery of varnish
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 06:52:38 PM »
Tim,

I produced a finish on an Alex Henry rifle that I built - mid 1850's period - that looked very similar to finishes I've seen on original percussion guns of that period using Chamber's Oil.  Lots of it.  And then more of it.

Tom

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: 18th Century Gun finishes - the art and mystery of varnish
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 03:39:55 AM »
I have had great luck with dewaxed shellac and alcohol as a sealer and colorant and with Chambers Traditional Oil Varnish as a finish. Now i am planning the finish for my black walnur English rifle from the 1750s.  So I thought since Tomegad is a traditional luthier he might be able to share another perspective that would be useful...realizing that violins don't have to function in the same environment as long rifles and fowling pieces of course?

So what did the Brits use on their 18th century sporting guns?  What about the idea that some guns might have had violin varnish finishes??

Tim,

When I first started boiling linseed oil with lead I had a number of talks with Kit Ravenshear.  He was a regular at Dixon's Gunmasker's Fair.  He really took to my boiled oil project.

In regards to the shotgun stocks in England.
Kit spoke to me about the old way things worked in England.  A "tinker" would go around to the various estates.  He would give each gunstock a fresh coat of boiled oil.  This would be the classic deep ruby red and fairly viscous boiled linseed oil.  Generally they would put the guy up for a day or two and feed him while he worked on the stocks.  Of course he got a small fee also.  This would be done over the Winter months when the guns were not in use.  This would also give the fresh coats of oil plenty of time to dry.  This was a yearly thing so over a period of years the finish would get firly deep on the stocks.  A good lead boiled oil finish can pass for a varnish finish when built up in numerous layers like that.

Kit would go off on a rant about how poorly we "colonials" treated guns we used.  That to most "colonials the gun was little more than another tool.  Not given the level of care that a good gun in England was given.

When you look at old sources they will often call a boiled oil a varnish.  There was a period in time where an oil finish simply meant raw linseed oil.  As soon as ANYTHING, including dryers, was added to linseed oil it became a varnish.

Bill K.

Offline bgf

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Re: 18th Century Gun finishes - the art and mystery of varnish
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 04:36:43 AM »
Here is an article by Jack Brooks I found interesting when I was looking into the subject one time:
http://www.jsbrookslongrifles.com/theclassroom.htm, then scroll down to "violin red finish" article.
Tinted Polyurethane used by someone I would consider a master.  The stuff gets a bad name, but few realize that there are various formulations, and that some are softer (though still plenty hard) and thus more tolerant of abuse and similar to "varnish" than others.  You could tint any finish you like, though.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: 18th Century Gun finishes - the art and mystery of varnish
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 05:35:25 PM »
Here is an article by Jack Brooks I found interesting when I was looking into the subject one time:
http://www.jsbrookslongrifles.com/theclassroom.htm, then scroll down to "violin red finish" article.
Tinted Polyurethane used by someone I would consider a master.  The stuff gets a bad name, but few realize that there are various formulations, and that some are softer (though still plenty hard) and thus more tolerant of abuse and similar to "varnish" than others.  You could tint any finish you like, though.


Its still plastic.
Yes, there are various kinds. But its still plastic and in reality is HARDER to use and HARDER to make a good finish with than properly prepared linseed oil.
I realize that in present day America it is hard to convince anyone that old beats "new and improved" but in this case it does.
Does anyone REALLY believe that anyone making a living stocking guns put 40 coats of finish on a stock??
That it takes months to do a "London oil finish" on walnut?
Its simply silly. Its not economically viable.
Modern varnishes, be they plastic or otherwise, have such a volume of petroleum solvents in them they are not really safe to use indoors.
Take your plastic stuff, put it on a piece of wood and put it out in the weather for 6 months. I have stuff in a bottle out in the shop, a soft oil varnish, that will stand this test with no significant degrading of the finish. It was out side all winter, sun, snow, rain -20 to +70. And this was a coating not in the wood, I just put it on a chunk of maple, a ruined SS forend and set it outside.

Dan
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Offline bgf

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Re: 18th Century Gun finishes - the art and mystery of varnish
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 08:43:52 PM »
Dan,

We agree on more than you realize, I think.  My real point (expressed better in the article than I could ever do) was that the varnishes used were (in many cases) tinted varnishes, i.e., they had color in them, got put on in a few coats and hardened up to a significant extent pretty quickly versus being lovingly rubbed in over 6 weeks and left to dry for ages :).  Whether some like it or not, a pure "oil" finish is probably not even as close to historically correct as polyurethane (except in terms of ingredients) in many cases, in my worthless opinion :).

I would disagree about polyurethane being harder to apply than linseed oil.  When used thinned, as a wiping varnish, it is about equal in difficulty of application to what you have described (boiled linseed oil with driers), but it dries quickly enough to recoat in just a couple of hours.  That is incidental to the discussion at best, however.

Finally, I'm interested in trying what you have offered as a mixture, as well as other varnishes.  I have used polyurethane for years, so its hard to get away from something I'm familiar with, but I know it is not 18th (or even 19th) century :).

Offline Dphariss

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Re: 18th Century Gun finishes - the art and mystery of varnish
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2010, 05:54:53 AM »
Dan,

We agree on more than you realize, I think.  My real point (expressed better in the article than I could ever do) was that the varnishes used were (in many cases) tinted varnishes, i.e., they had color in them, got put on in a few coats and hardened up to a significant extent pretty quickly versus being lovingly rubbed in over 6 weeks and left to dry for ages :).  Whether some like it or not, a pure "oil" finish is probably not even as close to historically correct as polyurethane (except in terms of ingredients) in many cases, in my worthless opinion :).

I would disagree about polyurethane being harder to apply than linseed oil.  When used thinned, as a wiping varnish, it is about equal in difficulty of application to what you have described (boiled linseed oil with driers), but it dries quickly enough to recoat in just a couple of hours.  That is incidental to the discussion at best, however.

Finally, I'm interested in trying what you have offered as a mixture, as well as other varnishes.  I have used polyurethane for years, so its hard to get away from something I'm familiar with, but I know it is not 18th (or even 19th) century :).

Everyone confuses stock finish linseed oil with paint thinner "boiled oil" from the lumber yard. You can make a good finish or varnish from this stuff but its not a heat modified oil since its not heated SFAIK. Do you really think that people making gunstocks spent weeks putting on a finish? Its likely they were done with an oil finish in 5-6 days. They had to make a living after all.
Of course the oils and varnished were tinted.
The oil/varnish will be naturally tinted when its heat modifiedit darkens as part of the process and different driers/additives will change the color even more. Iron oxides, lead oxide/acetate etc etc.
Thus the color on the Hawken rifle above.
Oil that is practically clear will darken to a reddish brown when heat modified. This is why artist stand oil was not heat modified. Boiling the oil colors it so that the artist could not mix colors in it. Thus stand oil and gunstock oil were made by different processes. Stand oil was far more expensive as a result.  But boiled oil is perfect for stock finish or making colored varnishes for wood and was cheaper as an added plus. The oil will continue to darken the wood and enhance the grain for about a week. Then it will get no darker. English walnut looks near the same color for a day or two then it darkens.
The heat modified oil will put a pretty good finish on maple in 2 coats (two days) if done right. What adding resins does is give the oil better water resistance, it will not get cloudy when exposed to water for a time.
I have done over 100 Sharps with a modern tung oil varnish. I would not even consider it now, its a nightmare of excess work and  then there are the fumes.
Dan
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