Rust bluing verus charcol bluing, pros and cons?

[Rolf]

Two questions

1)I've started on the pair of "silver kentucky pistols" and I can't make up my mind if I should rust blue or charchol blue the barrels. What are the pros and cons verus these two bluing technics? What should I chose?

2)I got last week the barrel and stock blank for my next pistol project. It's going to be a long slim target pistol with double set triggers, iron fittings with silver accents and a cast pewter nose cap.
 I want to blue the triggergard, pipes and buttcap.
Should I chose rust bluing or charcol bluing? Pros and cons?

Details on the target pistol (for those who are curiose).
The design is inspired by a long barrel pistol made by Hersel House.
Lock: Chamber's small siler flintlock.
Barrel:Swamped,slim, 0.40caliber, 15" long, twist 1/18.
I drew the barrel profile. Breech 0.8125", 5" from breech 0.67", 10" from breech 0.625", muzzle 0.75". Barrel custom made by Ed Rayle.
Stock blank: Quarter sawn stump cut curly maple from Freddy Harrison. Barrel and RR channel by David Keck.



Best regards
Rolfkt

[Acer Saccharum]

I personally like to see different metal treatments on the same piece, as it adds visual interest.

You could color case the hardware and fire blue the barrel.

Or rust blue the barrel and bright finish the hardware.

I wouldn't recommend fire blue on the hardware, as it will wear off pretty quickly with handling.

You should take into consideration the style and time period of the piece with the coloration.

Tom

[shooter93]

Charcoal bluing isn't quite as durable as rust blue.

[Rolf]

Acer, is fire bluing the same as charcoal bluing? I thought fire bluing was the same as heat bluing.

As to color case hardware, wouldn't that melt the silver accents?

Best regards
Rolfkt

[Acer Saccharum]

You can color case steel hardware with either fine silver or 24K gold inlays. Doesn't bother it a bit, unless you go over 1550 degF, if I remember correctly. Jerry Huddleston wrote a lot about this. Don't use sterling silver, as it oxidizes.

Fire and heat blue are the same thing. It is not durable, but the most beautiful. You can also do Nitre blue, which is brilliant, and maybe more durable, but not appropriate for an 18th C arm.

Charcoal blue is not the same. It is a blue black, dull finish. Quite durable. LSU Tiger did a tutorial on backyard charcoial bluing quite some time ago, and G Brumfield (Flintriflesmith) has spoken about it.

Tom

[Rolf]

Acer, How would you compare charchoal bluing to rustbluing( looks and durability)?

Best regards
Rolfkt

[Acer Saccharum]

Rofkt, I've only done rust blue. How it looks depends on how fastidious you are with your process, carding, boiling, rusting, etc. It's not hard to do, but it takes some set up and some experience, which you will have after a barrel or two.

The charcoal blue looks to be very durable, but i can't tell you, since I don't know. It looks like less work than the rust blue.

This gun is rust blued, and the blue is great for getting into details like engraving, etc. BUT if you have silver inlay, the carding may scratch your silver, so you must think this thru.

[smart dog]

Hi Rolf,
Rust bluing usually is more durable than charcoal bluing.  I use an additional trick that improves durability in any barrel finish.  After bluing, browning, or heat treating, etc., and after any acid rusting solutions have been neutralized by rinsing in water, I rub a thin coat of medicated vaseline (vaseline infused with phenol) on the barrel.  I then heat the barrel with a propane torch just enough to get the vaseline to smoke.  I then let the barrel cool and wipe off the excess vaseline.  The resulting fiinish is very tough and durable.  However, it is a flat finish so the method is not appropriate if you want a glossier finish on the barrel.  I've used the method on barrels for myself and friends who spend a lot of time hunting in Southeast Alaska where we get >75cm of rain annually and hunting is a steeplechase of climbing up mountains, over large downed trees, and crashing through dense brush.  The finish handles the abuse very well.

With respect to casehardening, Rolf, you will get brilliant colors and a hard finish on hardware heating the steel no more than 800 degrees C (1450 Fahrenheit).  If the parts are not exposed to mechanical wear (like a trigger guard), you can get by with a temperature of 730 degrees C (1375 F), which provides hardness sufficient for a rust resistant surface and nice colors.  Neither of those temperatures will melt or harm silver inlays as long as they are dove-tailed in place.

dave       

[J. Talbert]

I would second Acer's suggestion about multiple finishes on the same piece.  Although you could over do it on a simple American longrifle or pistol, I do think it adds to the interest and appeal of a fancier European or English piece of a given period.  I Like a combination of color case hardening, heat blue on some small parts such as screws and springs, rust blue, and browning. Style and period of the piece would certainly play into my decision.

Jeff

[flintriflesmith]

I wouldn't recommend fire blue on the hardware, as it will wear off pretty quickly with handling.

You should take into consideration the style and time period of the piece with the coloration.
Tom

Tom,
I guess fire bluing can be considered fragile but this pistol I made in 1976 is holding up fairly well. The places where the fire blue has the worst damage are from the owner sticking it under his belt while wearing jeans with rivets.
http://www.flintriflesmith.com/GunshopEraGuns/iron_mounted_pistol.htm

I think your recommendation that the style and time period of the gun should also be considered is spot on. I have seen no evidence that rust bluing was used on flint period longrifles. We used it in the shop at CW before we figured out how to do charcoal bluing.
Gary